Ancistrus + L260?

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 12 Sep 2006, 13:04

I'm getting a group of VF L-260's, which I'm going to house in a 160 liter (42 gallon) tank with strong current.

However, I've already got a trio of adult common ancistrus there, who are spawning regularly, and I'm wondering if I should remove the ancistrus, or if the L-260's will be fine with them?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Sep 2006, 14:08

Mike PM'd me before posting here, and I suggested that he'd post here.

For everyone elses benefit, I'll regurgitate my reply:

There's really no reason to split them. However, there may be a small conflict in feeding requirements, as the Hypancistrus is primarily a carnivores, and Ancistrus prefer (and require) a more veggetarian diet.

There are some potential problems with this difference in food:
1. Ancistrus may get too much protein, and not enough fibre/vegetable diet.
2. Hypancistrus may not get enough meat to condition for spawning.
3. Depending on the personality of the different fish, one species may outcompete when it comes to food, so one species "eats all the food", and the other "doesn't get any". I have had problems with this in mixed tanks of mine, although I've never had any Hypancistrus spp.

One more thing that I didn't mention in the PM: Hypancistrus sp(L260) requires fairly high temperatures, and it may be that this causes the Ancistrus sp. to stop spawning...

--
Mats

Dave Rinaldo · Post by **Dave Rinaldo** » 12 Sep 2006, 14:14

MatsP wrote:....and Ancistrus prefer (and require) a more meaty diet.

Hi Mats!

Home yet?

Rinaldo

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Sep 2006, 14:18

Dave Rinaldo wrote:
MatsP wrote:....and Ancistrus prefer (and require) a more meaty diet.
Hi Mats!

Home yet?

Rinaldo

Yes, I'm home, but apparent from the above, my brain isn't...

I'll edit above...

--
Mats

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 12 Sep 2006, 22:51

I had problems getting smaller hypancistrus to spawn in the presence of common ancistrus. I suppose the general rowdiness and hijinx of the species is just too much commotion for the hypans. After all, ancistrus are prefectly capable of spawning at temperatures in the vicinity of 82-4 degrees f.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 13 Sep 2006, 00:07

Hmmm... That's bad, but I can certainly imagine them intimidating calmer plecos. They are a rowdy lot.

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:43

Hi Mike,

I have actually no experience with breeding for these, but until today I had both an L260 and a common ancistrus in my community tank (100cm/180 liter).
It seems to me that the L260 doesn't compete well for getting the food, and the ancistrus is obviously the dominant specie here. So I choose to remove the Ancistrus (is now swimming in a mate's tank).

I'm now planning on getting an extra 1 or 2 L260 in my community tank.

Hope my experience will help you.

greetings Ruud

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 16 Sep 2006, 20:19

Well, so far I don't know what to make of this...

The L-260's have all hidden or burrowed in under stones & roots.

And there they've stayed. No one even came out during feeding.

Are these guys "poor competitors for the food" in the sense "will never show themselves while the lights are on and must be fed in the dark"?

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 17 Sep 2006, 08:34

As with most loricariids, it just takes time for them to get accustomed to a feeding regime. Afterwards, they'll be out there wrestling against even the fastest ancistrus for feeding rights.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 19 Sep 2006, 23:04

It's now been five days, and none of the L-260's have shown themselves or eaten any. I can see a couple of tailfins, but that's it.
Should I start to worry?

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 19 Sep 2006, 23:22

The best thing to do, honestly, is to resist any paternal (or whatever) urges you might have and just leave the tank alone. Feed relatively heavily right before lights out and just leave the tank alone. You'd be surprised how long a carnivorously inclined species such as these might last without feeding.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 22 Sep 2006, 13:25

Seven days without a sighting.

I am increasingly convinced that 1) These are 110% nocturnal fish which will simply not move while the lights are on unless poked with a sharp stick, and 2) They are completely and utterly unable to compete with other fish for food.

Feeding at night doesn't help as my other fish have no problem locating food at night either.

I will probably set up a species tank for the L260's. It'll be small, but they'll be able to stay hidden at all times and yet get food. And in any case fish simply don't get any less active than these are.

Hell, I saw far more of my banjo cats and my striped raphaels than I do of these.

One'd have thought I'd have learned by now never to buy fish I don't know, especially not expensive ones, but nooo...

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Sep 2006, 14:27

Mike_Noren wrote:Seven days without a sighting.

I am increasingly convinced that 1) These are 110% nocturnal fish which will simply not move while the lights are on unless poked with a sharp stick, and 2) They are completely and utterly unable to compete with other fish for food.

Feeding at night doesn't help as my other fish have no problem locating food at night either.

I will probably set up a species tank for the L260's. It'll be small, but they'll be able to stay hidden at all times and yet get food. And in any case fish simply don't get any less active than these are.

Yes, that's probably wise...

Hell, I saw far more of my banjo cats and my striped raphaels than I do of these.

I expect that you'll see a little more of them if you keep them longer, but I don't think they'll be out and about as much as for example Ancistrus or Peckoltia.

One'd have thought I'd have learned by now never to buy fish I don't know, especially not expensive ones, but nooo...

Learning from past experience, what's the fun in that when you can make the same mistake over and over?

--
Mats

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 23 Sep 2006, 23:57

Hi Mike,
I hope by now you have at least glimpsed your L260 Hypancistrus. They do seem to be shy. I have a dozen set up as a colony and from across the room they are out in the open and searching for every last frozen bloodworm. But the minute they detect my vibrations they all dash for cover. I'm sure it helps that they are the only cats in the tank but they do share it with a couple of dozen Boraboras dwarf rasbora species and 7 Sawbwa resplendens, Asian rummy Nose rasboras, all of which don't disturb the L260's. In fact, they may even help the L260's feel safer.
By the way, I visited your cool website and learned much from your work with shrimp. Shrimp have become one of my sub-hobbies. I raise the cherry shrimp and the common glass shrimp. I raised about 150 glass shrimp from the spawns of 4 females and now I have them in most of my tanks as supplemental scavengers. Congratulations on your success with the Amanos. I want to try the crystal red and white shrimp but for now the prices of breeders is a little too much considering some initial losses are to be expected.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 24 Sep 2006, 14:46

I ended up having to dismantle my aquarium to find all the L260's, but since about an hour they're all in a bare 30 liter tank with a bunch of slate caves and a 1000 liter/hour pump. Right now they're doing the other thing this species does really well -panicking- but I trust they'll settle down soon enough.
Bare tanks with just one species is really, really, really not my preferred way of keeping fish, but I don't see I have a choice. I will see if I can fatten these guys up, then I'll sell them to someone who appreciate them.

Re: my website... It's ugly and more accurately described as 'coagulated' than 'designed', but it's mine, so I thank you for your kind words.

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » 27 Sep 2006, 19:50

I'm sorry to here that! I just hope you didn't act too fast here.

As i posted earlier, i have had an Ancistrus and a L260 in my community 180liter tank. Now the Ancistrus has moved out in favor of an extra L260 (now got two) and an L134. I immediately noticed the difference here: now one L260 is spending its days half hidden in a hole near the front of the tank, while the other lies underneath the wood. They don't swim around like a neon tetra (they never will), but they show themself more.

On the other hand, the L134 is much more active and showing itself more. I think the shyness is typical for most Hypancistrus.

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 27 Sep 2006, 20:19

I have both a trio of adult L260 and 6 juveniles in separate tanks. The adults are very
active and come out during the day frequenty. On the other hand, I seldom see the
juveniles and I have to feed them at night and use a flashlight just to make sure they
are still alive. The wild adults came from a pet store environment so maybe they were
just conditioned to getting food during the day and accustomed to all the vibration
from traffic in the store. The juveniles were tank-raised and I would have thought that
they would be more "tame" but they are very shy. If fact I actually want to put them up
for sale since getting the adults, however, they live in a piece of swiss cheese looking
driftwood and I don't think I will ever be able to get them out of there.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 27 Sep 2006, 22:40

A small update:
The L260's are all still alive, looking quite healthy, and are far more active in the bare 30 liter tank with slate caves than they were in my 'rapids' aquarium. Unfortunately, all of that activity are fights over caves, since they're crowded, but I'd say they now about tie with Agamyxis wrt how often I see them.

By dropping food directly on them I've got two of them to take a little food. None will actively forage, though.

I attempt feeding three times per day: early morning, midday, and late at night. I offer e.g. chopped earthworm, chopped shrimp, various pellets, shrimp mix... everything up to and including catfood, in an attempt to find something they'll eat. As I write this I'm trying Excel granules from Aquatic Nature.
I vacuum up uneaten food after about one hour, and change 1/3 of the water twice per day to keep water quality decent - a must considering the size of the tank, how much I feed, and how little they eat.

I had hoped to get them eating so I with a clear conscience could sell them at a local auction this sunday, but right now that doesn't seem likely.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 28 Sep 2006, 10:48

I would try a little less food, left in the tank overnight. They are much more likely to eat at night in the first place.

--
Mats

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 28 Sep 2006, 14:40

It's not possible to leave food in the tank overnight with this circulation. It's very "windy" in there, and with a bare bottom everything ends up getting sucked into the filter.

EDIT: I'd now say they've started eating in earnest. I still have to drop the food on them, though.