Cracking the Emperor's Code. 56k Warning, lots of pix!

[sidguppy]

oh?

so now it's "bad manners" if people don't agree with you, is it? or if they refuse to believe without given evidence?
and now I'm "supposed to have you branded as a liar" because I keep being sceptic about any story without the evidence?
it's called "healthy scientific sceptisism" NOT "branding people as liars".

you might have missed it alltogether, but this forum (and the website) have a decidedly scientific view on the catfish keeping as a hobby.

wich means: if you boast a certain fact that's revolutionary: show us the evidence!
it's like the 2 feet Common Pleco discussion: Jools and the others won't change the max size in the catelog without a pic of such an animal, preferably along something (a measure tape or so) to proof it really IS that big.

I'm EXACTLY the same: I'll believe in breeding granny's perfectly fine IF you supply us with the facts and the evidence!

so far ALL you have done is given vague stories, keeping details under the table, hinting at things but steadfastly refusing to get into any details.
and then you try to foist us off with the "evidence" of a 3" granulosus; a size wich is readily available in the well stocked LFS wich specializes in Rift fishes.....

When repeatedly asked for true evidence, you start whining about my sceptisism and about my supposedly bad manners?
I smell a rat here!

btw boating 30+ years of fishkeeping doesn't impress me one bit, because I'm in the hobby myself for such a period.

Back on topic please, after all; it's MY post about my own breeding attempts on this species.

[Jools]

Will you two cut it out please.

Sid is entitled to question you as there is zero evidence here, has not called you a liar, or questioned your word, he has however questioned the logic of seeing 3" fish and assuming there are F1. I think that's fair and I'd privately do the same myself.

If the issue is who's, the "first", then it is the person who documents it well and shares that knowledge that should get the accolade. Anything else is sour grapes.

I know Sid well enough to know that the limelight would be his second pleasure, seeing the young fish would be the first.

Graham, I don't know you at all, but I have no reason to doubt what you have seen, why don't we wait and see if someone can take pictures of these fish at the exhibition?

Who is the breeder? Why can't they be named once the fish have been to the show? I probably know them, so I might be able to drop in and pay them a visit.

Finally, and this is said without my moderator hat on, 2" or 3" fish are no use here, really, they could be pure bred BUT artificially produced. "Cracking the emperor's code" is about natural captive reproduction and the only way that's going to be recognised is if the whole process is captured for all to learn from.

Graham has felt the need to ask me to remove his membership because of this disagreement, he is fairly new to the web and the fact that if you're going to stand on a soapbox with some news, then sometimes you have to duck the tomatoes.

I'd like everyone to please back down a bit and respect each others views.

Jools

[caught1]

It really is a shame the way some go out of their way to badger others on the web.

[Jools]

It really is a shame the way some go out of their way to badger others on the web.

It's not the web, that's life. Same thing happens at work, at play, at fish shows... Anyway, can we just draw a line here on the opinions until something new shows up like pictures of these fish or some spawning evidence from SG's fish.

Jools

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

Sid check your biofilter! ;)

[sidguppy]

I'll definitely do that, yeah.

this weekend the big tank is going to be stripped down; the granny's already are staying at Dhonti's place (he's a close friend and just as experienced with Tangs as I am).
they wouldn't fit in the one Tang tank that stays running (a 55G); that tank will house the S polli group, my Garra's and the shoal of Cyp microlepidotus.

I already sold and traded the other fish.
I made the deal that I would hear it rightaway if the Granny's will suddenly spawn at his place; as luck will have it he's actually very well capable of taking pics (unlike me ).

Once the big tank's up and running and granny's and Cyps are back in again I'm going to keep on cracking.

[worton[pl]]

I keep my fingers crossed for fast start of this new HUGE tank and successfully cracked code :).

Regards.

[Richard B]

Hi everyone

If someone will please tell me (i'm a dummy really) how to post photos, i'll supply a picture of a baby granny 49 millimetres in length. in the photo is a 1 penny uk coin for direct comparison.

Anyone instruct an ididot like me please?

Richard B

[Richard B]

p.s. i'm so stupid i didn't realise thr thread was over 2 pages (Doh!)

C'mon someone tell me how to include a picture!

They are on the hard drive of my machine waiting to be included in this thread...

[worton[pl]]

http://www.planetcatfish.com/faq/index. ... opular=yes

However I think it would be nice to start a new thread about your s. granulosus since this one should be Sid's spawning raport I guess.

:)

Regards.

[Richard B]

thanks for the response - it is appreciated.


My photos are not on the 'net - is it possible to post on some sort of communal free site?

I totally understand this is Sid's thread & will gladly start a new one if that's the best protocol. Sid did ask to see a photo earlier in the thread & i merely wanted to supply one. i am led to belive my fish is from the source indicated by graham s.

[Marc van Arc]

Richard,
Try http://www.photobucket.com
I would also advice you to start a new thread, not only because it's someone else's, but merely because your information and picture get lost in here.

[Richard B]

Thanks a million Marc - it's done!

Richard B

[Derek-M]

I know certain members of the forum refused to accept when I posted earlier that "Grannys" had actually been bred in an aquarium,even stating I had been the subject of a hoax.Believe me it was certainly not a hoax, I now have one of the products of that spawn swimming around in one of my aquariums.The adult female that is in the same tank is watching over the little one as if it was her own,chasing away anything that dares to get to close to it.The little cutie is about 3"-3.5" in length and is an exact miniature of its older companion.We had tried desperately to obtain them on our last visit to the breeders,but thankfully on Monday of this week we were able to get 2.One is mine,the second will hopefully be going to his new home this weekend.I am unable to post photographs on the forum,due to the fact that I don`t have a digital camera,or the know how to do it,but I am hopeful that the new owner of the second fish, a forum regular,will be able to do so fairly soon.The people responsible for the spawning will be taking a number of them to a pet traders exhibition in Birmingham in about two weeks time.
I have also been told that someone in the North West of England had an "accidental" spawning some time ago, but hadn`t realised it had taken place.As a consequence only 3 or 4 survived.
I will not give out the full name of the breeder involved as I suspect they are looking to make a feature of them at the exhibition.I do offer my congratulations however to the young man responsible,(Gavin)for his success and hope he will be able to continue with many more spawnings.

I am just back from Birmingham Pet Index and was lucky enough to purchase one of Gavins Tank bred granulosus..(Stunning fish)

[Landlubber]

Tri-mar claim to have tank bred grannys at £115.

Looking forward to you're spawning logs Sid.

Good luck.

[sidguppy]

I quit with breeding fish a while ago, so this topic can get locked.

I still like to have fish spawning ofcourse, but I definitely don't want to have all the hassle afterwards with trying to get rid of the fry and having all those weird and psychologically undeveloped creeps in my house.

I'm so not into trading....no.

I got a job for the cash; livelyhood and hobbies; I ditched ALL my breeding tanks and I kept the big showtank (in wich the granny's roam) and a few smaller ones; but I quit with all breeding of any fish.

too much hassle. I found that the spiderkeeperscommunity is so much more relaxed and normal compared to the sometimes downright vicious fishkeeping community that the less I get to do with many fishkeepers, the better. with a few exceptions ofcourse, but these are close friends.

I don't want any strangers in my house anymore.

[Richard B]

Landlubber - Trimar's fish are sourced from Gavin, so are genuine tank bred grannys.

Derek M - they are great aren't they

Sid - i hope the grannys do it for you some time whether by design or not. You have helped so many through your posts, don't lose faith with the fishkeping community as a whole - some of us eagerly await your posts to learn as much as we can from your extensive knowledge - it'd be a great loss to have you contribute less

[sidguppy]

yes it's an old post

BUT since it's mine AND since yesterday, thought I'd dig itup

they spawned!!!!

I've seen em go at it at about 7 oclock in the evening; not just the chase and the follow up, but in the end the dominant male curled himself around the head of the female and they did a real honest to god spawn.

lots of vibrations that I hadn't seen before. and I thought he'd hold her like a Corydoras would -with his spine- but he doesn't; it's much more a "wrap" than it's a Callichthyd headlock (like in rugby).

he folded himself around the head of the female. surprising how such a fat Syno can curl up.

this time I spotted another thing; they dug out a pit. all the sand between 2 rocks was removed and that's where they spawned

if it was intentional or the sand was removed by their swimming, I'm not sure, but I got a fair bit of sand in that tank.

the eggs unfortunately were lost right way; the second male scooped up what the pair ditched.

but in the past I only saw the working up to spawns and then spotted a thin female the next day. this time they showed me how they go at it

[L number Banana]

Wow Congrats Sidguppy!
Were you staring into the tank in raw disbelief?

What's the plan? Are you going to try to get save next batch of eggs? And get some pics??

Yippee!

And I for one am glad you didn't say, "Screw it all" and never be seen again.

[Richard B]

Aha - i always new you'd have success Sid - well done indeed.

Are you able to identify any trigger? Atmospheric pressure, weather, temperature?

[MatsP]

Congratulations to the VIEWING of the spawn... Shame it didn't lead to fry... But to get fry, you must have a spawn, so it's a start....

Now the two questions are "How to prevent the eggs from being eaten?" - removing the surplus male may be an obvious answer,
and "How to make it happen again?" - I don't have any suggestions here (other than "waiting", which isn't really a good suggestion at all).

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

Now the two questions are "How to prevent the eggs from being eaten?" - removing the surplus male may be an obvious answer,

removing the surplus male, the surplus female, 5 Synodontis njassae, 18 Paretroplus macultus, 7 Paretroplus damii, 3 Ptychochromis oligacanthus, 4 Ptychochromis granidieri, 1 hypostomus and several Bedotia's is a bit more of a challenge, though......

[MatsP]

Of course - and further, it's quite possibly going to affect the fish, such that they may not "feel like spawning" any more. It's much easier to sit here several hundred miles away asking very obvious questions than it is to actually solve them when it's your own, fairly rare and expensive fish we are talking of...

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

they spawned!!!!

Great achievement

[wrasse]

Great news.
Just a thought - Is it possible to divide the tank? Net all the fish out from one side, then remove the divider. Then keep repeating it til you have the pair left.
Or, just leave the divider in?

[sidguppy]

I'd kill a lot of fish if I put a divider in.

the tank is a bit overstocked. it's a big 315 gallon whopper, but still.
and also; Madagascar cichlids are hyperactive. ADHD fish.
not agressive like Mbuna or Central American cichlids, but more like a load of puppies.

they need a lot of room to move and they intensively use the water.

no if i want to breed the only way i can do is to separate the female, put in the male and hope they don't kill each other.

I definitely don't want to gamble with my other fish.
strange as it may sound; i can -if i was an idiot and willing to spend- replace the Syno's.

but the shoal of mediumsized Paretroplus would be much harder! this is a Red Listed critically endangered fish.
Madagascar went to the dogs last year; it now has a junta ruling the country with an iron fist and fake elections to keep the UN happy.

human rights are trash at the moment, the fish fare worse; the first thing that the rampaging mobs did was to destroy all the attempts and breeding efforts of the endangered fish that were run by the locals. several people had to flee for their lives and are now in hiding or in exile.

replacing these fish ould be very hard; fish exports from Madagascar are gone now.
my whole colony of p maculatus is pure F1 from adults that Jean Cleaude Nourissat and Patrick De Rham brought to France in the late '90's

Jean Cleaude is no more and Patrick has told us on the Mada group that there will be no more madagascar fish research or trips in the foreseeable future.
the future of the situation is bleak.

so, no way i'm going top gamble and fool around with my fish; and weird as it may seem: breeding the cichlids overrules breeding the catfishes for now