Bloated/bouyant S.Granulosus

[Richard B]

I went to a retail outlet over the weekend to view 2 Syno. Granulosus (a wild caught pair). The 2 individuals looked vastly different - the male was a long, lean individual whilst the female was a short stubbier specimen. They were in separate tanks but both appeared bloated with distended bellies, obviously more noticeable on the lean male. The tanks were unfurnished so each individual had located itself underneath the centralised filtration return pipe at the top of the tank. (The obvious place, as it was the only area of "concealment"). When one moved away to swim round it looked plain that if the fish put less effort in, it would slowly start to rise to the surface, as it appeared to have bouyancy problems. I would have said on close scrutiny that with the fish under the filter return pipe, it was being "held down"/submerged by contact with the pipe, preventing it rising to the surface altogether.

Is this a known problem with imported Granny's? (I haven't seen that many in my time) - does anyone know where any are for sale in the uk that i'd be able to view? I'd value your opinions. Other (non-catfish)species at this dealer lookd fine.

[sidguppy]

obviously these are sick; probably some bacterial infection.

there are several diseases wich make a fish swell and develop intestine gasses.
I'd look somewhere else if I were you for a cat, especially such an expensive species.

granny's resting sink. like most Syno's they can inflate the swimbladder to 'stick' themselves to the roof of a tank, but they also can correct that fast and hence 'sink' once they leave their hiding place.
Granny's prefer to rest belly down. only when that's not possible they rest belly up.

another bad sign of the shop is that they neglect to put hiding places in a catfish tank.

[Richard B]

Thanks for the response Sid - it is appreciated - i presumed most of what you'd confirmed but wanted a more educated opinion. I had a thought in the back of my mind about Granny's being a deepwater fish & possibly suffering from being bought up to the surface too quickly (similar to some fish when they are caught by deep sea fishermen)

[sidguppy]

That is a possibility; however catfishes can get rid of excessive air easier than for example Perciformes (of wich cichlids are 1 big family).

Those fishes don't have an 'emergency' pressure-outlet, and hence it's commnon to see species like Benthochromis, Bathybates, Trematocara and the like to be expanded and floating once they're hauled up too fast.
in those fishes it does show like you describe and it rearely heals OK.
often if the fish doesn't die, the swimbladder gets severely damaged nevertheless and you have a fish that sits on the bottom and can't swim properly.

catfishes can deal with that and I have never seen any Syno float due to a pressure-related symptom (it's still possible though, but rare), not even granny's.

Despite it's rarity the granulosus is one of the hardiest and easy to keep Synodontis we have in the hobby. it's a tough ol' boot, I dare to say that keeping the granny healthy is just as easy as keeping a real big eupterus or nigrita, although it's a very bad tempered and quite expensive one.

[Richard B]

Thanks again Sid - i'll have to keep looking for some, elsewhere in the UK

[grahams]

Hi Richard ,I didn`t realise anybody in Warwickshire was likely to stock anything such as Grannys, could you tell me
which area of Warwickshire they were as you`ve made me very curious.I`m surprised that with the fish in the condition they were, they were actually on show,but these days proper quarantining seems to be happening less and less,and if retailers are buying from wholesalers they think the wholesalers quarantining is enough.
You really need a dealer specialising in African fish, and it depends on how far you are prepared to travel to get the fish, or prepared to buy blind and buy mail order.The only U.K.dealer I have been aware of over the past couple of month`s to have genuine Grannys is up in the North East and they usually get a few with most of their African shipments.
I`m not sure of the rules for posting dealers names and numbers on the forum so I won`t,but if you cannot guess from what I have already said let me know.

[sidguppy]

Suddenly another thing popped up too:

it COULD happen if the LFs handlers overfed the granny's with floating food, like cichlidsticks or Koi-carp food.

granny's are complete pigs and gluttons; they sure don't stop feeding till all the food is gone
maybe they can eat themselves to death, but I sure as heck won't try it out

If that's the case and they have swallowed too much air-containg food it's not a real problem because with a few days fasting it can all be pooped out.

but how did they look? fast breathing? squeazed-up fins? bleak coloration? whiskers folded up against the head? or nothing of that?

[grahams]

The point you have just made Sid is a very good one.I have seen it happen quite regularly with C Frontosa and around this area it has become known as Frontosa Float.I suppose its` like a bad case of indegestion for fish.It`s usually wise I think,if you are going to feed Koi pellets or sticks to pre-soak them first for5 or 10 minutes to soften them.

[sidguppy]

That's exactly what I do with floating pellets when I feed them.

I got a batch of high quality spirulina Koi pellets and the granny's love em. but I presoak.

it's not needed with sinking food; no air in it and it also swells far less; mine also love sturgeonfood wich I also have.

[Richard B]

Hi Sid & Graham - thanks for continuing the thread.

Graham - the retailer was not local. I believe from your post, you know where it was. I travel a fair bit so did not consider it a LFS.

Sid & Graham - the fish were bright, breathing ok, fins in natural orientation (not clamped). They spent nearly all of their time beneath the pipe outlet as the it was the only piece of cover in the tank.(the individuals were in separate tanks). When swimming freely the female seemed slightly more energetic, the male seeming lethargic. The male was six & a half inches & really lean - not emaciated, with a small but distended "pot belly" (not quite half a ping-pong ball)which looked a little odd - not quite like a greedy guts who'd over just overdone it. When he swam slowly he would begin to rise towards the surface until he put a little more effort in. The female was 5 inches and chunky, pale grey/purplish with some faint spotting, broad white edges to the fins, white whiskers (the male was darker & more purple brown). The female's body was much more rotund, almost squat. Both fish were kept under the pipe outlets by their own bouyancy without putting any effort in.

Neither fish shape matched any photo available (body shape with bloating), & not like any previous specimens i've seen, (and that's only a couple, many moons ago - possibly some of the first in the country - up north west for £1000 each).

Much as i want one (or several)i just didn't feel right about them.

I have spent time in the retail trade many years ago & was lucky enough to come across most catfish that are available & some that are seldom seen, & have a good sense of what a healthy fish is, I may have been wrong but these just weren't right - if it was over-indulgence on dry food with a lot of air, looks like i've missed an opportunity...but better same than sorry.

Moving tack slightly - Graham - do you know if you have to be in the trade to attend GLEE? (from your post about the breeder who might have some on display as competition prizes).

All the best - Richard

[grahams]

Hi Richard,
If you don`t feel the fish are right you have done exactly the right thing.Just follow your insticnts.Did the dealer give any idea how long he has had the fish?Clearly from your descrition the male was the older fish as Females are usually slightly larger than males, and it sounds as if he was in adult colour with the female still being in sub adult dress.
My initial thought was that he was possibly suffering a swimbladder/bacterial infection,but i`m not so sure now.It`s not unheard of for Synos to suffer bloat but all those i`ve seen look ill.Of course frightened fish, without the reassurance of somewhere to hide, often force themselves as high up into the corners as they can get.My only other thought is perhaps the fish has been fed to much of the wrong diet too soon after coming out of the wild but if we are talking of the same dealer he does have a lot of experience with wild fish .At the moment, I haven`t heard of any other dealer holding stock of wild caught Granulosus in the U.K. currently. Your best chance would be to keep an eye on some some of the aquarist pages online as they do come up from time to time.If we are on the same wavelength regarding the dealer,he I believe, gets most of his African stock from a dealer in Belgium with exactly the same name as his own shop,but that is a heck of along way to go for 1 or 2 fish.
GLEE is actually a pet traders show, and I think the only way to get in is by tagging along with a tame retailer,if you know of anybody.