Loaches: are Schistura spp. good snail eaters?

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 06 Aug 2006, 12:26

I've already checked the loaches forum, but couldn't find a satisfactory answer. So here is the problem: the snail population (the species that buries itself) exploded and I have the opportunity to obtain Schistura mahnerti. Any good or not?
Thanks for replying.

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Aug 2006, 15:14

No. You'll need botiine (or botiid) loaches.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 06 Aug 2006, 18:20

wich tank is it?

in the big tank the choice of fish is more limited if you still have the Exodons.
Clown Loaches would be the way to go, unless you can get a baby Megalodoras ofcourse, but you know that yourself better than I.

but in the smaller tanks 4-5 Botia striata will quickly solve your problem

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 06 Aug 2006, 21:47

The large tank surely needs some "bastards": I was thinking of Botia hymenophysa. Clowns and Megalodoras are out of the question. Although I had very good results with the latter in the past, this species simply can't be found anymore.
The small tank could do with B. striata or perhaps B. sidthimunki. Depends on which of the two is the best snail eater and - rather important - availability.

ginosanti · Post by **ginosanti** » 07 Aug 2006, 10:32

The botia hymnophysa's that i have had, were very aggressive.

I was happier with the lohachata's. These were a lot friendlier.

Never had striata's.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 07 Aug 2006, 11:36

ginosanti wrote:The botia hymnophysa's that i have had, were very aggressive.

That's exactly what I need, otherwise they'll end up as food

rahendricks · Post by **rahendricks** » 07 Aug 2006, 14:18

Are any of the smaller Doradids like Agamyxis good for snail control?

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 07 Aug 2006, 15:24

rahendricks wrote:Are any of the smaller Doradids like Agamyxis good for snail control?

No, I'm afraid not. The only Doradid that is known to eat snails is . Locally it's called 'key way mamma', which means 'mother of snails'. That says it all

.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 07 Aug 2006, 21:04

But the same store that could get you the Trachycorystes (not exactly a common fish, not even by a far stretch) cannot get you a single baby Megalodoras?

it's now 'low season', but in a month or so it's "weird South American catfish-season" again.....

B striata and B sidthimunki are both easily bought; but you know as well as I that sidthi's are expensive; not in the least because they only thrive in larger groups....buying 10-12 sidhi's about 10-12E each is quite a number.
The striata does fine in smaller groups; 4-6 will do fine and they're usually dirtcheap too.

however sidhi's are extremely efficient snailkillers; Patrick got rid of each and every snail in his big tank, even the burrowers.
In his smaller (250L) tank he put my 4 Botia striata; that tank already had 5 larger Botia almorhae (formerly known as B lohachata or Yo-Yo Loach) AND a burrowing-snail plague (!), and the striata's put a very big dent in that population as well.
It still has a few burrowing snails, but not in the way it's bad for the tank.

wich proves that with exactly the same feeding regime the Yoyo Loach is a lazy bum not good for snail-eradication, but the B striata is quite efficient, even in a small group housed in a fairly sized tank.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 08 Aug 2006, 09:36

Whether it can be ordered or not, there is one other main problem to Megalodoras: it simply gets too large. Thus adding the problem of it being a passer-by. Where should it go to after the snail problem is solved?
Botias are of course much better temporary guests, although I doubt it that I should bring B sidthimunki back to an LFS; I'd rather keep them in the small tank.
Which leaves the large tank still open... I think B. striata are too small and perhaps too timid to feel at ease overthere.
Puffers.... don't combine with the Exodons. Maybe I should decorate the tank with a - brilliantly coloured - snailtrap?!

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 08 Aug 2006, 10:35

I'll keep my eyes open for B hymenophysa.
I sure remember seeing those less than 5 months ago somerwhere.

but it's also low season for Asian wildcaughts.

Are there still Pleco's in that tank of a sort? the Nuggets or something?
if not: cucumber weighed down with a rock or a plant-lead-clip are true snailmagnets; in a few hours it changes into a ball of snails.

In a snailtrap a smaller catfish can get stuck and die.....been there, done that....

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 08 Aug 2006, 11:30

sidguppy wrote:cucumber weighed down with a rock or a plant-lead-clip are true snailmagnets; in a few hours it changes into a ball of snails.

Thanks, I'll give that a try; the only Loricariids in the tank are Farlowella vittata, which seem little interested in "green" foods.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 09 Aug 2006, 16:23

The lead clips have been picked up and at the same time I bought 5 Botia striata (for the same price as 1 B. sidthimunki), that are already in the small tank. Tonight I'll drop the cucumber in the large tank and we'll see what happens.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:19

The cucumbers are true snail magnets. Now I just need to find a way of getting the Farlowellas away from them, which are - all of a sudden - very interested in green food....

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 09 Aug 2006, 19:27

lol!

well, as soon as you approach them with a hand, the Farlowella's should move.

still got a fine meshed net available?
as soon as the cucumber is full of snails just scoop it up, sand and all.
Burrowing snails have the irritating habit of letting themselves drop once they're disturbed.
but a fine meshed net should let the sand sieve through, but keep the snails.
keep at it for a few days and you'll see a fair dent in the snailpopulation.

yes, I had to do the same in my riverine tank too. damn snails.

and yes, my Sturisoma's are just as bad. or as dumb. or both.

I tried it first with pleco-tabs and spirulina-tabs (the snails got attracted for sure) and almost blew up my platystacus

they have the amazing ability to swallow whole plecvo-tabs and they didn't stop before they cleared the entire tank of tabs......I grind my tabs now to allow other fish to eat as well

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 09 Aug 2006, 22:04

Yes, that works fine. But when will the lead become a problem?

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:44

When the pH drops below 4-5 or so.
if not, lead cannot dissolve and hence cannot be a problem.
to get a serious amount of lead-ions you'd need a much lower pH, say 2 or even lower.
pH is logarythmic scaled, so a pH of 5 is ten times as acidic as a pH of 6! to drop the pH from 6 to 4 you need a hundred times more acidic water!
to drop it to 4 from the pH of 7 in your tank 1000 X more acidic......

lead itself as a metal is not toxic, it only becomes toxic as a fume (when you melt and boil it, or burn it in a combustion engine with the leaded fuel

) or as an ion wich it becomes in a very acidic environment.

maybe you heard about Roman emperors going insane? like the infamous Emperor Caligula for example who married his sister and appointed his horse a consul.

Those Romans got that crazy because of lead poisoning.
however if they had stuck to beer (like the Gaulois, the Germanic tribes and the Celts) it wouldn't have happened.
however Romans were very fond of wine! wine is quite acidic (the pH of wine hovers between 2 and 3) and hence is capable of dissolving lead.
lead was used to make wine-goblets.....

Since I know for a fact that your tank won't ever drop below, say, 6 or so (Eindhovens' tapwater is 6.8-7.3 or so) it's highly unlikely lead will dissolve, anyway, if the pH drops below 5 all the fish will die and still not enough lead won't dissolve.

uless a big fish swallows a clip! stomach acids are quite acidic (piscivores can digest bones!) and a fish that swallows a lead-clip can quickly die of leadpoisoning.
still got that bad tempered Trachycorystes? no? then I take a fair guess none of your fish is stupid or voracious enough to do a thing like that.

the fish will be safe.

else you'd see loads of dead fish in every LFS that has leadclipped plantbushes in tanks with all kinds of ornamental fish; never spotted anything like that.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 10 Aug 2006, 08:27

Great. Sounds good.
If I still had the Trachycorystes, it would have been the only fish in my tank by now

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 10 Aug 2006, 08:50

ouch!

too bad.
it still looks like a very cool catfish; I re-read your story about its' extremely bad behaviour.
that's a big bummer.

hope you have enough Exodons left now to make them still behave like a shoaler; I remember Exodons in your tank in a smaller group (long ago) and it sure didn't work out.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 10 Aug 2006, 10:38

I lost 3 Exodons to the Trachy, could add 2 larger specimen a little later so there are still 13 Exodons in the tank. Btw: they're not true shoalers, except when being fed. For the rest of the time they sit in seperate spots, giving eachother dirty looks

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 12 Aug 2006, 00:46

I've got a group of Mesonoemacheilus triangularis (a small indian balitorid) and they do eat snails. I've seen them tear out large Malaysian Tower Snails from their shells, and they seem to eat small MTS's whole.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 12 Aug 2006, 10:24

Marc needs bigger and much much meaner snailkillers, or else the Exodons will destroy fish like the Mesonoemacheilus.

Exodon is one of the true bastards in the characin world; wouldn't put them in my tanks if I got paid; they make piranha's look like sissy's.

On the other hand....Marc if I remember straight, the Exodons completely ignored bottomdwelling fish, right?
your Doras and Trachydoras were unharmed; not exactly hardy agressive cats. Corydoras robinae were also ignored.

so maybe some loach that sticks to the floor is also suitable. if it behaves like a catfish and not like a barb perhaps it works just as well.
rules out Botia's though; those like to swim everywhere.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 12 Aug 2006, 15:57

So far the cucumbers are mean enough to withstand the Exodons

.
Indeed they ignore (and have ignored) my cats, even the fragile species like Farlowella and Platystacus. They are very keen on fish swimming above them - which is the reason that I had to say goodbye to the Ctenolucius for instance - but they keep some distance to a wriggling bunch of surface feeding Auchenipterids.
I've kept them now for several years with a lot of pleasure and I'm not even getting paid for it.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 25 Aug 2006, 18:00

The cucumbers have been replaced by a small group of clown loaches. I hope they are more effective than the vegetables. At least the Botias will not attract the Farlowellas.
I'm enjoying myself already: these are temporary guests so they have to be caught out at some point. Messy.

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 26 Aug 2006, 05:07

Have you tried a JBL snail trap ? I find they work great on Malaysian trumpet snail.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Aug 2006, 13:40

FuglyDragon wrote:Have you tried a JBL snail trap?

No I haven't, because I was told (see above) that these might be dangerous to smaller fish.
And I will not put one in my showtank, because overhere they're apparently only available in a combination of neon purple and neon orange (sunglasses excluded).
But thanks for your suggestion; I appreciate it.