BN pleco tank setup

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 21:18

I have a 20h with a hydro 5 or a 20 long with a penguin mini and i want to make one of these tanks into a pl*co breeding tank. I think i will use the 20 long, but not sure yet. I know i have to get alot of driftwood and couple pl*co breeding pots since i want 2 pairs and their fry to grow up with them. and i think i will do a ugj system becasue plecos like water movement. can i keep my gravel or should i change it? i really dont want sand becasue gravel is easy to clean but if u have a good reason y sand let me know. Tell me what u think

jimmyB · Post by **jimmyB** » 20 Jun 2006, 22:14

Hey Red Zebra...I've seen your red zebras for sale on the GCCA, I live south of you about 15 minutes. I am no expert in BN breeding, but I have 2 batches of albino fry under my belt now after 7 months of waiting for an "arranged marriage" of 2 fine specimens I aquired from 2 different sources to pair up. I would choose the long instead of the high tank. I was never a fan of sand, but in my 2 tanks (40 breeders) of BN I have sand in both. It is extremely easy to clean with my siphon, now I love it. In my 3rd tank (BN and angels) I have a bare bottom. I think my siphon vacuum tube is about a 2.5" or 3" diameter and 15 inches long, and the tubing is about 1/2" or 5/8" OD. You have to use coarse sand though. Those fry are so small, I can't imagine how they would do with gravel, I would think they would get stuck and have trouble finding the small pieces of food they would need as it falls into the crevices between the gravel. With sand, the food pieces stay on the surface of the sand. Easy for them to find, easy for me to clean. I grind up some small flake and small crumbled pellet pieces, as well as melon and zuchini slices. As for water movement, I have a bubbler and a hang-on-back waterfall filter on one tank, and a sponge filter run with a Powerhead as well as a HOB filter on the other. That is plenty, they don't really seem to "enjoy" the water movement, they instead tolerate it. Put your money in the water cleanliness instead.

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 22:40

so would a 20 long be fine for 1 pair of lgfn bn and one pair albino bn?

jimmyB · Post by **jimmyB** » 20 Jun 2006, 22:56

I'm thinking it might be kinda small, but I have heard of people using a 10 gallon for a smaller pair. If you do get fry, you are going to need another grow-out tank ASAP.

My male BN is in his cave about 90% of the time, he is such a sloth. I have the big female, and then a second female that is getting close to breeding size. And now I have 40+ fry. I don't see any squabbles or fights. But this is in a 40 breeder. I suppose I could add another pair in there if I removed fry.

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:04

how does a 29 gallon sound? or 10 gallon for 1 pair no fry?

jimmyB · Post by **jimmyB** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:12

I'm curious to hear what folks have to say. Try to PM Matts. Based on what I have read, folks telling stories of their fish fighting and getting territorial, I would lean towards 10 gallon tanks for a pair, instead of trying to get 2 pairs into a slightly larger tank. The 29 gallon adds height, but not really any footprint compared to the 20 Long. These guys are kinda like Mbuna, and I know you are familiar with them. However, I hear of more issues of females fighting than with Mbuna. I sent you an email regarding the driftwood, since I was just looking at the Chicago site to find some supplies for myself.

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:18

thanks for the email i was wondering who it was. what about a 30 gallon which is 36long by 12 deep by 16 high? for the 2 pairs

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:19

btw who is matts?

jimmyB · Post by **jimmyB** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:29

That 30 long is worth a try. With some caves and some driftwood I would assume they could hide and keep out of trouble. Maybe we can trade fry!!!

MatsP is a forum moderator or frequenter who has helped me out with good advice, although there are a lot of posters here with years more experience than me. This board seems to be slow lately since we are in the middle of the World Cup. If you look on this South American Catfish list of posts, you will see his name on at least one post. Seems that there are a lot of UK and Nordic people on this board, they seem to keep catfish more than in the States.

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:32

i will try the 30 but i am afraid my 4 wild syno multies = 8 host wont do so good in the 29 less floor for the synos

jimmyB · Post by **jimmyB** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:56

There are a lot of tanks for sale on the GCCA website! Sounds like you need to decide on one or the other, or get more tanks! What are the hosts you are using for the multies? There is more profit and demand for Multies, and a fair amount of demand for long-fin BN, but not much for albino BN, if that plays into your decision. (I am talking about in the Chicago area).

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:58

i know that is y i got multies. i am using A. calliptera. look on gcca some tank ads are mine. i live with parents they wont let me get more tanks

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 21 Jun 2006, 00:18

so i want other opionions is 30 gallon enough for 2 pairs of longfin bn?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Jun 2006, 11:29

redzebra24 wrote:btw who is matts?

That'll be me.

First of all, if you're trying to breed two different forms of bristlenoses, they should be kept separate, unless you're intentionally trying to merge the two forms - and that would possibly not work out as you expected, as both long-fin and albinism are recessive genetical disorders[1], and the result of mixing a brown long-fin with a albino short-fin will result in a regular brown short-fin, although it now carries both the genes for long-fin and albinism.

Regarding tank-size, bigger is better - particularly if you don't want to get a separate grow-out tank...

Two pairs of the same type would be fine in a 30g, except that from what I've read, two males is not so great unless you have HUGE tank, because both males will want to have the BEST breeding spot, and the one that doesn't get it will fight with the male that does, and they will be too occupied with "infighting" to bother about mating with a female. Better is to have a trio of 2f/1m in that case.

By the way, long-fins are EXACTLY the same species as the short fin variety, so everything that applies to the "average brown short-fin" will apply to long-fin, except there needs to be more care in selecting tank-mates... Don't keep long-fins with anything that may want to nip fins or is otherwise aggressive towards cohabitants, since the long-fins are less able to swim well and would be more likely to suffer from aggression/nipping.

--
Mats

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 21 Jun 2006, 17:05

thanks. so could i keep 1 pair and grow out the fry in a 20l, and the other and grow out their fry in a 20h? If i can how would trios sound for both the 20 gallon tanks?

Post by **Barbie** » 21 Jun 2006, 17:13

One spawn of fry in a 20 gallon will basically max you out for tank load. If you're going to grow the fry out to sell in a 20 gallon and not move them elsewhere you'd probably be better off sticking with one female for each, to keep from being overrun as fast, IMO.

Barbie

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Jun 2006, 17:31

I've got my breeding going on in a 96 liter tank, which is about 25 gallon or so. This is not sufficient to grow out a single females continous spawning - you'll need a BIGGER tank for that, something like 40-50 gallon, I would say. But I separate the male and female when I don't want them to breed, which means that the fry are OK to stay with dad in the 25 gallon tank, and mom goes in one of the other tanks I've got (without a male), until most of the fry have been sold (to LFS), at which point I reintroduce the female, and usually have a spawn within a week or so...

--
Mats

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 21 Jun 2006, 23:38

so if i do 1 pair in the 20 long and 2nd in the 20h could i put the females together in a 10g when they need to be seperted from the male

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Jun 2006, 13:04

That would probably work. Just make sure the nitrate stays low in the 10g when you have the two mums in there...

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Mats

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 22 Jun 2006, 19:02

what about a pair of albino longfin in the 20l and then a trio of longfin browns in a 29 gallon. Both tanks would be used as grow outs without the moms

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Jun 2006, 20:17

If you keep two females, you can count on averaging a spawn ever two-three weeks or so. And a reasonably fully grown female will leave about 50-60 eggs, 80 if she's quite large. That's around 100-150 fry every month. I wouldn't recommend keeping more than around 50-100 fry in a 20-30 gallon tank (less in the smaller tank, 100 only in the bigger), so you'll get too many too quickly if you keep two females, in my opinion.

It takes about two-three months with good food and plenty wate changing to grow them to the required inch-and-a-bit to sell them. They'll grow slower if you have more or you don't do sufficiently large and frequent water changes.

If you really want to grow them for sale, you should consider getting a big grow-out tank (55 or 75 gallon or so) and keep the fry there once they are past the size that you can move them (or even rob the "dad" of the fry before they start to come out of the cave).

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Mats

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 22 Jun 2006, 20:21

so i think i will use my 20l and my 20h for the fish and grow out. i will try to get my mom to let me buy a 100+ gallon tub for grow out if i can i will use that 29 with the trio. if not i will just use the 2 20s and the 10 for the females after they had spawned. How does that sound

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 23 Jun 2006, 00:25

should i do a one way current on my tanks?

LDA19 · Post by **LDA19** » 23 Jun 2006, 04:15

I know that this is going against everything you have read on this and I will probably hear about it from a lot of you out there but. I have 3 males and 3 female adult BN in a 20 high and have never had any problems what so ever. Now I am not recommending to anyone, I am just telling my experience.

Oh by the way I raise the fry to 1" to 1 1/2" in the same tank!

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 23 Jun 2006, 04:47

wow really that sounds kinda crazy how many water changes do u do?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Jun 2006, 09:40

LDA19 wrote:I know that this is going against everything you have read on this and I will probably hear about it from a lot of you out there but. I have 3 males and 3 female adult BN in a 20 high and have never had any problems what so ever. Now I am not recommending to anyone, I am just telling my experience.

Oh by the way I raise the fry to 1" to 1 1/2" in the same tank!

Sherrie, how often do those spawn?

--
Mats

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 23 Jun 2006, 16:30

so i figured everything out about the tanks i think. i will spawn the pairs in 20 and grow out fry in one or 2 50 gallon tubs for 20 dollars each. should i do a one way current in the breeders tank?

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 23 Jun 2006, 17:19

When i did breed BN i also seemed to have more spawns with multiple males in the tank. The only reason why i could think this is is because the dominant male had someone to fight over for his females. I bred 2m/3f in a 20g long.

LDA19 · Post by **LDA19** » 23 Jun 2006, 23:44

I do a 50% water change every day and I have at least one spawn a month.

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 24 Jun 2006, 14:55

so should i do a one way current?