Fish in tanks is cruel - STOP IT

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 19 May 2006, 16:19

So say these misguided idiots.

Anyone in the UK who saw the channel 4 "dispatches" documentary on Monday night will agree these people are lunatics.

They don't realise that any sympathy the public have with their cause (almost everyone agrees that animals should be treated better in our society) evaporates when they do things like dig up (and hide) a dead relative of the owners of a guinea pig farm. They got 12 years in prison though

These people have sucessfully stopped DIY chain Focus from selling fish. This was three years ago though.

While I deplore the poor treatment of fish at any shop, it is very worrying that these people can have so much influence.

I just wish these bad shops with poorly trained staff didn't give the rest of the hobby a bad name, although I'm sure the lunatics would still complain.

What I find most hilariously ironic and hypocritical, is in the above article, when they are explaining how fish feel pain (quite what this has to do with keeping them, I don't know), they cite references to scientific work that has carried out the following:

took measurements from individual neurons in anaesthetised rainbow trout while they poked the fish's heads and applied acid and heat.

compared the behaviour of fish who had either bee venom or acetic acid injected into their lips with animals that had received harmless saline.

The fish treated with acid also rubbed their lips on the sides and bottom of the tank

Now isn't this exactly the kind of experimentation they want banned!

Unbelievable!

Post by **medaka** » 19 May 2006, 22:26

these misguided idiots.

I wonder if they give any thought to the "animals" that are affected in the wild by their activities.
Maybe when they are driving to and from their protest meetings: -
Their vehicle emissions poisoning the roadside Rivers, canals, ponds and ditches. Road side plant and animal life.
The plight of the insects that helplessly attach themselves to their windscreen and headlamps.
The poor mammals that they occasionally run over.

I could go on and on, but I did my political campaigning in my younger days

, and now I am going to my fish house to relieve MY STRESS

Psy · Post by **Psy** » 20 May 2006, 00:15

A lot of those problems are problems, that people are working on, without banning the whole hobby. I'm not sure how many times I've typed "you need a bigger tank for 2 oscars" since i've kept fish and visited these boards.

And finally:
These experiments to say that being hooked is painful to a fish such as these bee venom things are a bit crazy. Sure its painful, but after you have hooked and landed a fish, tossed it back and watch it turn around and bite the hook a second time seems to indicate that a fish hook does not interfere with feeding.

To equate the senses of a fish to a human is pretty silly. Even among animals, it differs greatly. While I wont go near some thorn bushes, I have a beagle that would gladly bloody itself if it thought it could catch a rabbit. (and thats why our fence fences off the offending bushes!)

MAV · Post by **MAV** » 20 May 2006, 19:42

Do these people use toothpaste / deoderant / pain killers / washing up liqid the list goes on...

What do they think the above was tested on "aliens"

These people are no better than terrorists, I have first hand experience in past employment with the likes of this type of jobless scum.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 20 May 2006, 19:46

PETA had a campaign similar to this but with much less success. They wanted everybody in my area to get a pet Cod(reverse psychology-know what you are killing), but thought better of that notion.

Then, they did <a href='http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_displa ... k'>this</a>. Check out the references.
Amanda

MAV · Post by **MAV** » 20 May 2006, 20:12

I wish I could show you what these idiots did to our company, and the personal threats that were imposed on our lives.

I believe it's called direct action!

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 20 May 2006, 22:33

Obviously this is a contraversial subject. Yes I saw the TV program in the UK recently and was shocked but not surprised by the actions of some animal lovers.
It has been mentioned in this thread about the use of Tooth paste, Deodorant, washing up liquid etc which clearly are tested on animals, the question is should they be tested on animals? Because man wants to use some new beauty product or washing up liquid do we have the right to experiment on animals.
Is man a parasite using other life forms as an ichneumon fly uses a caterpillar?
Should we technically abuse animals in labs for something like a washing up liquid ?
Testing on animals is more justifiable when the product tested is for medical use but are they actually useful?
I am sure the men in the UK who nearly died testing a drug after it had already passed animal testing may hold strong views on the subject.
This issue is not helped when film footage is shown of staff in animal test labs treating the animals badly which is sickening.
All that will happen is animal testing will be forced out of places such as the UK to other countries where animal welfare may be less of an issue.
Therefore not stopping the testing but infact forcing animals into greater suffering.
As regards fish I dont see groups like this stopping the keeping of fish.

PP

MAV · Post by **MAV** » 20 May 2006, 23:00

The daily products we buy were tested on animals.

Is it right ?

If we get soft hands from fairy liquid does an animal need soft hands?

why does the animal need soft hands? why do humans?

what hapends if we dont clean?

I would love to see research done on rapists and murders people on death row, that way its known commit a crime and you will really pay for it, guarentee people would think twice.

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 20 May 2006, 23:25

PETA are nuts, I've always said so, and their agenda is not to save animals, but to inconvenience humans.

Nevertheless, there is truth in this statement as made by PETA:

"Fragile tropical fish, who were born to dwell in the majestic seas and forage among brilliantly colored coral reefs, suffer miserably when forced to spend their lives in glass aquariums. The same is true of river fish. Robbed of their natural habitats and denied the ability to travel freely, they must swim around in the same few cubic inches of water over and over."

It's perfectly true. I've said it many a time myself. That's why I don't keep, and never will, any fish that will reach over 4" adult size. I don't care how much water the aquarium holds.

As well, their tips for how to keep a fish happy in captivity, are not that far off from the advice given on most fish forums.

Deborah

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 May 2006, 16:02

They really don't help themselves with this fundamentalist vegan evangelism.

Perhaps if they realised they aren't going to achieve exactly what they want tomorrow, and adopted a more pragmatic approach, they would see a lot more support and therefore results.

For instance, if they joined up with responsible hobbyists, and started demonstating against bad fish shops and practices, rather than on intimidating people to close down shops, we would see a drastic improvement in the welfare of aquarium fish.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 28 May 2006, 19:14

There are idiots out there keeping fish and they should really be made aware of what they are doing. I once wen't to buy a fish from a private seller that had in a 6'x2'x2' aquarium, and follow this carefully cos you are not going to believe it.
A red tailed catfish
A Psudodoras niger
A tiger shovelnose
A Lima shovelnose
2 Perunno cats
Giraffe nosed cat
5 Large Loricarids (all above 12")
10" Pictus cat
Appx 5 oscars
Appx 5 pacu
A clown knifefish
One of those huge guramis.
Red tailxtiger shovelnose catfish
A Large headstander
Appx 5 large unidentified characins

All the catfish listed with no lengths were 2' and above the pacus were all appx 12".
he was eagerly showing me his 'big tank full of fish'. I just got my fish and left.
He told me that he had to change the water almost everyday.
The amazing thing about it was these fish were in excelent condition and he had grown them from quite small.
So this guy knew how to keep fish he just had too many in there.
Madness.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 28 May 2006, 19:46

I think this fellow will wake up one morning to a tank full of dead fish. Either they will kill each other or they will die from toxic wastes in the tank. I believe you. There are many nightmare stories with pets here in the US. People with 200 cats in one house, making it uninhabitable,etc.
Amanda

wildsteelhead · Post by **wildsteelhead** » 29 May 2006, 22:49

Some tropical fish species are extinct in the wild, and now only exist in aquariums. Ask these morons if they are in favor of extinction over "captivity" in an aquarium. Grrr......

arc200uk · Post by **arc200uk** » 29 May 2006, 23:42

Having worked in a pet store for 2 and a half years, im under the impression that most fish keepers should be banned from keeping fish.

I spent 2 years giving people advice on fish keeping before I ever got to the stage of keeping fish myself. That sounds bad, but I knew a heck of a lot about fish keeping and fish...much more than any of the customers i ever had to serve.

*Customer brings in dead kribensis*
Me: What type of set up do you have?
Customer: Shut up! I've been keeping fish for 20 years! Now give me another fish!

The worse customers go and buy an aquarium and try to buy fish at exactly the same time... You tell them that they have to cycle their tank before introducing the fish otherwise they'll die...they then go off and buy the tank..and then sneek past you 5 minutes later to try and buy some fish.

Then you get little boys who count the money in their pockets to see if they have enough money for a tetra..... That job did my head in...Especially the goldfish and the kids with their death bowls....MY GOD! How many goldfish need to be killed in a day??

The people I dislike the most are people who know a lot about fish but still keep siamese fighters in tiny bowls..am I the only one who sees a problem with that? Because people seem to think that siamese fighters will freak out and die if they are actually given the space to move.

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 02 Jun 2006, 22:30

Y'know, I spend a decent amount of time during the day trying to point novices in the right direction on another forum but the upshot is this; 99 percent of the new, and sometimes older, aquarium keepers never buy an proper aquarium book and READ it and a similiar percentage doesn't do a lick of research on the requirements of the fish they are interested in before buying it.

I even put out an offer for a proper reading list on that forum. In four months, five people have asked for it, out of 10s of thousands of members.

I I wasn't the mellow, even-tempered cat that I am, that would tick me off.

Dave

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 03 Jun 2006, 15:31

I wish people read more often. I am fortunate to have a great family. One nugget of wisdom my grandfather imparted to me years ago was this: "knowing where to look things up is half the problem solved." He died years ago. But, he had a lot of great nuggets. "If you're working too hard, you're not doing it right." That one rings through my head when I'm trying to set up tubing on a canister filter or net fish.
Amanda

cartouche · Post by **cartouche** » 03 Jun 2006, 16:28

djw66 wrote:Y'know, I spend a decent amount of time during the day trying to point novices in the right direction on another forum but the upshot is this; 99 percent of the new, and sometimes older, aquarium keepers never buy an proper aquarium book and READ it and a similiar percentage doesn't do a lick of research on the requirements of the fish they are interested in before buying it.

Dave

Only novices? I visited one pet shop and I offered them Corydoras. The owner of the shop asked me, if Corydoras is a bird or a fish.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 03 Jun 2006, 19:09

djw66 wrote:99 percent of the new, and sometimes older, aquarium keepers never buy an proper aquarium book and READ it and a similiar percentage doesn't do a lick of research on the requirements of the fish they are interested in before buying it

Did I disagree with you on the status of the US soccer team; on this subject I couldn't agree more. The thing I keep hearing from my students is: why read? We've got the internet.
When someone decides to shut down the electricity they'll be walking on all fours within a week

.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 04 Jun 2006, 14:54

but the upshot is this; 99 percent of the new, and sometimes older, aquarium keepers never buy an proper aquarium book and READ it and a similiar percentage doesn't do a lick of research on the requirements of the fish they are interested in before buying it.

Having worked in a pet store for 2 and a half years, im under the impression that most fish keepers should be banned from keeping fish.

So if this is the case, then how can fishkeeping be justified if nobody cares or wants to learn how to do it properly?

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 04 Jun 2006, 16:01

Marc van Arc wrote:When someone decides to shut down the electricity they'll be walking on all fours within a week .

I think they'll be walking on all fours within 24 hours if you take away the cel phones and video games.

Amanda

arc200uk · Post by **arc200uk** » 04 Jun 2006, 18:01

"So if this is the case, then how can fishkeeping be justified if nobody cares or wants to learn how to do it properly?"

Keeping goldfish in bowls is not justifiable.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 04 Jun 2006, 18:14

"So if this is the case, then how can fishkeeping be justified if nobody cares or wants to learn how to do it properly?"

Keeping goldfish in bowls is not justifiable.

No, I mean keeping any kind of fish full stop (period).

arc200uk · Post by **arc200uk** » 04 Jun 2006, 23:24

I think the trade is wrong at the moment and that there should be more restrictions on buying fish. You've just got to look at all the goldfish/plecos/silver sharks being sold every day. It's horrible. The pet shop I worked at is now selling Oscars!! Imagine all the idiots who will go and buy those for their community tanks.

Fish in tanks is cruel - STOP IT

Fish in tanks is cruel - STOP IT

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