Some much needed advice on future of aquarium.

[arc200uk]

Hi guys and girls,

I've got a 33 US gallon aquarium, set up since the 26th Feb and I need some advice. I'll put it into fish and plant catagories so you can skip the plant bit if you wish!

1 - Plants: The aquarium is a low light one, it has 2 20? watt bulbs so thats 1.2 watts to the gallon. Some of the plants I had in there at the beginning (it looked crazy) grew like mad, especially the plants which were labelled "medium to high" (ludwigia and a few others)..they outgrew the tank and one started to pop out of the top. I transferred them into my 125 gallon and they looked huge!

Im under the impression that Amazon swords are low light plants, although mine have lost all of their tall leaves (they go brown and get holes in), while at the same time, they have grown lots of small leaves and instead of being tall and skinny, the two plants are short and really bushy. I put 12ml of king british 'plant grow' in there a week (they suggest 5ml for 10 british gallons every 2 weeks), am i not feeding them enough or is it a problem with light? Perhaps my plant food is lacking what they need or the other plants are out competing it for these nutrients, like my Java moss which ive now mostly removed?

Any suggestions on how to get the leaves growing nice and tall without them dying on me? Perhaps a different but similar plant which would do better?

2 - Plants:

Here are pics from when I set the tank up and what it looks like now:


eek!


now

How would you rate my tank? And anybody got any idea with regards to what that broad leaf plant is in the middle of the new tank pic? It has grown 5 really long stems with leaves which are sitting on top of the water like lily pads. Why it is growing its leaves like this?

2 - Fish: It has been home to 4 bandit Corys. I get the feeling that they are pretty lonely and bored at times and could do with some companions. They've also been scared of me ever since I rearranged their aquarium a few weeks ago. Could anybody suggest a good mix of fish to complement them? The dimensions are 80cm x 45cm high x 35cm deep. I'm clueless... but think that some extra fish will comfort them.

[pictus_man_77]

a small shoal of Neon Tetras, or something easy on the lines of that? Guppies? Zebra/Leapord danios

[racoll]

Hi ark200uk.

I don't think you have enough gravel in there to enjoy success with Echinodorus (amazon swords). They need about 5 inches minimum. They also need a really iron rich substrate like flourite.

Most Echinodorus are only semi aquatic plants. For large parts of the year they exist as bog plants out of the water. This is how they are grown commercially too. When you put them in the aquarium, they will lose all the terrestrial leaves (as you are noticing), and regrow with aquatic leaves.

Unless you want to spend more money on the tank (eg more lights, more substrate, CO2 etc), then I suggest you just stick to the plants you are having success with. Keep trying new ones, and see which ones work for you.

The plants with long stems look like Anubias. They aren't leaves, but flower spikes. Lower you water level, and they should flower.

As for fish, what are your water parameters (pH, hardness, nitrates etc), as these will decide what fish you can keep.


Hope this helps

[arc200uk]

"The plants with long stems look like Anubias. They aren't leaves, but flower spikes. Lower you water level, and they should flower."

when you say flower, do you mean pretty little pettled flowers? as at the moment, they have opened up reavealing just these long sticks and i was pretty disappointed. Anubias is a great plant..it is indestructable.

I see what you are saying about the swords, maybe it would be a good idea to add more gravel and then try and find a less demanding alternative. Im going after a broad leafed theme. That 'Echinodorus' with the 'aquatic leaves' is my pride and joy. They turn a lovely red once they hit the surface. Its roots are amazingly long actually, and im sure they span the entire bottom of the tank. Im not going to try digging that up.
I think that I could possibly add another 16 watts of light under there, bringing the total to 56 watts or 1.7 watts per gallon. Probably wouldnt touch CO2 unless i got really bored one day.

I dont have a test kit at the moment, i do know that the PH is quite alkaline (7.5/7.8 perhaps?) and the water is very hard...where i live, there is a lot of chalk in the ground. How about some Malawis to keep my corys company? (joking!). All i could say about nitrates is that perhaps they are too high as sometimes i get a little bit of hair algae appearing, im cutting down on feeding now and increasing water changes to 20% twice a week. By the growth rate of the Java moss, i can only assume that the plants are helping to keep things balanced.

Neons sound like a good idea, but guppies are a bit homosexual if you know what i mean!

[pictus_man_77]

i know exactly what you mean!
i'd go for Danios, because they look nicer than the blinding neon tetras in my view!

[racoll]

Neons sound like a good idea, but guppies are a bit homosexual if you know what i mean!

Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

If you don't fancy any of the regular tetras like neons (bit boring if you ask me), then some of the small pencilfish from the genera Nannostomus or Nannobrycon are great. Very easy, pretty and more interesting to watch than many tetras. The males are always displaying and chasing each other.

I would also recommend some plecs (of course), such as Otocinclus or Farlowella.

A cichlid or two is always nice. Apistogramma cacatuoides would be your best option.

For a planted tank to be successful, you will need as low a fish stock as possible to reduce nitrate and phosphate build up. If these get too high, the algae will win!

This would be a good mix, but is probably pushing it...

4X Corydorus
8X Nannostomus
4X Apistogramma cacatuoides (1 male & 3 female)
6X Otocinclus

[arc200uk]

Just thought i'd do a progress update! Replacing the swords with 'Anubias barteri var. caladiifolia 1705' I've bought a 'motherplant' online, so god knows how large that'll be. Should come this week. It was £24. It doesnt seem to be coming on wood or rock, does it do well in gravel? It was my second choice as I could not find a supplier for Anubias heterophylla.

The plant growing those new leaves is growing a 7th now...nearly 6 on the surface of the water. Its starting to look stunning... Im hoping for another 7 of these 50cm stems! It seems to have achieved one new stem a week.

Still constantly thinking about the fish suggested here.. Those dwarf cichlids do look stunning (even though I dont trust the good behaviour of cichlids!) and i wanted pencil fish years before ever having fish. Zebra danios are by far the easiest to get hold of.

If the anubias ever did start growing algae on their leaves, would ottos eat it?

As you two are in the UK, I dont suppose you have good advice on finding rare fish? I am in north Hampshire. The people on this forum look as if they go fishing on the amazon every weekend.

[Kana3]

I think you should double your Cory population.

[arc200uk]

Ok, i'll increase the corys to six soon (larger the group, the more the confidence eh?), hopefully bandits. Found a shop which has 'golden dwarf pencilfish' (nannostomus) in stock, so i'll go and have a look this afternoon..i'll spend a few hours reading about them first and ill buy some test kits while there.

[arc200uk]

I got two Apistogramma cacatuoides today (1 male and 1 female) and some Nannostomus. Its been about 10 minutes now and the Apistogramma cacatuoides were settled in straight away! Investigating the corys, which are actually a lot bigger than them. Reminded me of the time my tiger barbs investivated my little (now 6inches) rainbow shark in my 125 gallon.

I watched the male and he looked as if he was going up to nip the female...he did this about 3 times with little pauses inbetween and then he was swimming closely in front of her showing her his finnage! Looks as if he really fancies her. The pencil fish dont seem to mind those cichlids shoaling with them. You dont realise that one is with them until you realise that there is a big fat one watching you!

[racoll]

The tank sounds good. Get some more pics if you can. In answer to your questions.....

'Anubias barteri var. caladiifolia....does it do well in gravel?

Doubtful, as the rhizome (root) may rot. I just tie the rhizome onto bogwood with some of that thin green gardening wire. It works a treat.

Those dwarf c*****ds do look stunning (even though I dont trust the good behaviour of c*****ds!) I got two Apistogramma cacatuoides today (1 male and 1 female)

You'll need to carefully watch the male's aggression towards the female. They might be fine, but if he gets a bit too rough, then consider getting another female to divide his attentions.

If the anubias ever did start growing algae on their leaves, would ottos eat it?

They should keep on top of most algae as they graze the leaves, if you don't have much to start with. However, they won't be able to fix an algae problem unless it's the soft brown type. Otos won't eat mature hard green spot algae, or any type of established furry algae.

I dont suppose you have good advice on finding rare fish? I am in north Hampshire.

There's a chap called MatsP on the forum. He lives in that part of the world, and will know all the best shops in the area.

[arc200uk]

"You'll need to carefully watch the male's aggression towards the female. They might be fine, but if he gets a bit too rough, then consider getting another female to divide his attentions."

Problem was that they only had 3 males and 1 female.

I guess that they are ignoring eachother now. The female seems very shy, she prefers the company of the corys. the male likes to watch and join in with the pencil fish

The pencil fish are the ones to watch right now. I just went to see them and there were just 2 pencilfish in the centre of the tank attacking eachother and physically rubbing sides. All the other pencil fish were hiding...Who can blame them. Some are turning red. Its just good to see that none of the fish are displaying bad signs.

I'll take some more pictures soon.

[MatsP]

Shops in North Hants/Surrey border:
(Of course, Hampshire is QUITE a big county, so they may not be much help...)

My "local" shop: Lynchford Aquatics - great staff. They aren't a BIG shop, and they don't have a huge range in stock, will attempt to get things for you if you ask, but sometimes you have to ask more than once (if they don't get it in the first time round because they can't get it, etc).

Maidenhead aquatics - Woking or East Horsley. I've been to both and bought fish in both - by far not as much trade as I've done with Lynchford, but they have a bigger selection (bigger store). Good identification (rarely wrong on Genus, but may be off with the species - as with many other shops...). I wasn't quite as impressed with the Basingstoke branch of MA.

Badshot Lea Garden Centre - Good selection - a bit hit and miss with the quality and certainly not the best at identifying the species. I haven't bought many fish from here, but that's mostly because I don't go there quite as often as the others.

To avoid: Notcutts in Bagshot and Cranleigh - full of dead fish and the only three fish I got from Bagshot were quite soon dead...

--
Mats

[arc200uk]

I found the dwarf cockatoo cichlids and the pencilfish at the Basingstoke branch, I was really impressed with the selection of fish and the general health of them, although one of the staff members was pretty rude to me, agressively going "anything else?!" and acting defensive when I asked questions.

Ive given up on the Anubias as ive been waiting too long. I've now got two large 35cm + Java Ferns to replace the swords.

I've put a large ceramic urn in their for the female dwarf cockatoo cichlid..she has been following the male around today which is a good sign, its better than the male's usual nips. He gets nipped by the dominant pencil fish (a right nutter) from time to time, so hey.

Today, i've brought the pencil fish total to 8 (I think I accidently syphoned up 3 fish without noticing the other day, so bought 5 more). I've also purchased 2 Peppered Corydoras to bring my Cory count to 6.

As soon as I added the new pencilfish, the red colour of my established fish faded...pretty interesting and i expect that there will be a lot of fighting soon to re-establish their 'pecking' order.

When I brought the 2 Corys from Pets At Home, I got home to find out that there were 2 huge Firemouth cichlids in the bag. I asked the girl for 2 corydoras and I didnt mind which type I was after..she couldnt seem to see any in the tank but finally seemed to see the ones I was inititally after (peppered). I pointed at them and said that I would like the peppered corydoras...they were sharing a tank with the firemouth cichlids and she asked me which I would like, the smaller or larger ones, so i asked for the larger ones so they would be a similar size to my current corys...she obviously thought that the firemouth cichlids were giant corys. Poooor fish.....

I'll post pics shortly

[arc200uk]

Not too condifent about a front on view as i've let tiny patches of algae slowly develop over time and there are also lots of snails over it. There's also a bit of drift wood which ive got to play around with.









It's also due a water change! I bought some test strips today and this was the result:

Nitrate: 50 (a bit lower?)
Nitrite: 0
GH: 16d
KH 5d
PH: 7.8

Tap water:

Nitrate: 30 (???)
Nitrite: 0
GH: 16d
KH: 5d
PH: 8.2 (hmm...)

[MatsP]

I wasn't terribly impressed with the Basingstoke branch. But maybe I was just there on a bad day... If you ever travel in the north-easterly parts of Hants, try the Woking branch - or if you go the other side of Guildford to East Horsley. I personally find those better.

Tank looks very nice.

And the water looks like the same values I've got in Godalming. Horrible nitrate levels, that's for sure.

High pH is a consequence of the hard water [it doesn't HAVE to be high and hard, but unless we get LOTS of acid rain, it's not going to change - and I'm not sure a lot of acid rain would be something I would like... ].

Unfortunately, to get the hardness down, the only real solution is some form of water purification - Reverse Osmosis, Deionization or distillation. All of those have running costs and require some care and attention to make sure your water stays correct... And of course, soft water is harder to keep stable, so you'll need to check it more often for pH...

--
Mats

[arc200uk]

I think that i've heard that trying to alter PH and etc can harm a fish more than keeping it the way it is, because the values fluctuating all the time could harm the fish. So a beginner like me would dare! Good to see that you have horrible nitrate levels too.

Dont know much about them, but the Apistogramma cacatuoides (dwarf cockatoo cichlids) are acting really strange.. The have both found a tiny little cave (gap under the lava rock to the left of the tank) and the male keeps going into it...i'm surprised he can fit under there! the peaceful female has now started attacking the other fish! She will just go up to a cory and start nipping at it going "GET OUT OF MY WAY!! IM A CICHLID!!" The female keeps wanting to go into the cave with the male, but he seems to nip her and chase her out of it sometimes. Their behaviour has really changed. I cant see whats in the dark gap under the lava rock..it is pitch black. The male wouldnt be the one caring for the young right? If they were to have babies, would they come out of the cave to be fed? Probably the wrong forum to ask really....

[MatsP]

I think that i've heard that trying to alter PH and etc can harm a fish more than keeping it the way it is, because the values fluctuating all the time could harm the fish. So a beginner like me would dare! Good to see that you have horrible nitrate levels too.

Hmm - not sure it's a GOOD thing, really - but I guess you could see it as a good thingt o have it confirmed, and not just you or me thinking that it's high...

Dont know much about them, but the Apistogramma cacatuoides (dwarf cockatoo c*****ds) are acting really strange.. The have both found a tiny little cave (gap under the lava rock to the left of the tank) and the male keeps going into it...i'm surprised he can fit under there! the peaceful female has now started attacking the other fish! She will just go up to a cory and start nipping at it going "GET OUT OF MY WAY!! IM A c*****d!!" The female keeps wanting to go into the cave with the male, but he seems to nip her and chase her out of it sometimes. Their behaviour has really changed. I cant see whats in the dark gap under the lava rock..it is pitch black. The male wouldnt be the one caring for the young right? If they were to have babies, would they come out of the cave to be fed? Probably the wrong forum to ask really....

They are probably starting to build a territory, and the male is showing his ability to defend the "home" to the female. I think the are biparental, i.e. the male and female are both caring for the young - but I agree, this isn't the right forum for it...

--
Mats

[arc200uk]

" but I agree, this isn't the right forum for it."

haha..never!!



Well, as far as catfish go, 1 of those 2 peppered corys i bought from the pet shop died soon after purchasing it..it kept floating to the surface uncontrollably on the first night...somehow hung on for its life for the next day and then died before the next morning... the other cory which didnt die seems to have a slight deformity..its tail appears to be bent to the side from time to time, although on other occassions, it seems normal... i visited the tank in the pet shop the next week and there were only a few left...one dead and one with fin rot. The surviving peppered cory sure loves to eat though... while the bandits just hang around under their drift wood cave, this little guy is out eating sinking tablets and algae wafers as soon as i put them into the tank. The bandits seem to prefer frozen food such as bloodworm and brine shrimp. Pencil fish cant physically seem to eat flakes...so i dont use flaked food in this tank.

Here's what I think is the final design of the tank:



Mission accomplished.