2 dead L200 in 2 weeks

[Rense]

Hey all.

I had 6 L200 in my South-American tank, but about 2 weeks ago, 1 of the 6 suddenly died, without any signs of sickness or anything. The day before that, I saw all 6 of them, but when I found him(or her, I dunno it smelled and looked like it died a couple of days ago.

The same thing happened with the second one. I saw it yesterday, but when I found him(about an hour ago) it looked and smelled like it's been there a while.

I've heard this story from 2 other persons as well. Pretty much the same things happened. Does anyone know if L200 is extremely sensitive for anything? I've read the profile in the Cat-eLog again, but I didn't really see anything special in there.

TIA

[Iporangensis Headach]

Internal Parasite?

Dont some plecos possion the water when they die?

[PlecoCrazy]

I had a group of 7 L128's die about 2 months ago all within a week. All seemed fine the first couple of days and then I noticed velvet which; because of the coloration of the fish; was actually hard to see untill I was able too see one fairly close up. I imagine even harder to see on L200. Little yellow dots. Smaller than ick. Tried to treat but was to no avail. You may look a bit harder for physical signs of something. There went $300 awfully quick. That was a nice two week breeding project.

Good Luck!

[Barbie]

Did you by any chance check ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? All of the things listed in the sticky at the top of this forum would give us a much better chance of helping you. When you lost the first one did you immediately do a partial water change? What else is in with them? Were there any marks on the fish you lost like they were having territorial issues? The more information you can give, the better.

Barbie

[Rense]

I don't think its any kind of parasite, usually you'll notice something different and it doesn't take 2 weeks between victim 1 and victim 2.

Believe me, I've checked my fish thoroughly, but I couldn't find anything which isn't supposed to be there ;)

I don't have all tests at home(like ammonia), so I took some of the aquariumwater(from before the water change to the LFS, who tested it. Ammonia wasn't measurable. nitrate was about 10mg/l and the nitrite cou;dn't be measured either. pH was 6.4, kh and gh were both low, about 5.

This was after the first fish died. I haven't measured it after the second one died. (Easter, everything's closed .

[Janne]

How long time have they been in your tank before they died?

Janne

[Rense]

How long time have they been in your tank before they died?

Janne

pffff... I bought 2 of them about 13 months back and the other 4, uhm.... I guess about 6-7 months ago. When I bought the last 4, there where all put together in this tank, so they all spend more than half a year in this tank

@Barbie: sorry, I forgot, the tank is 130*50*50(cm) and the tankmates are:
5x Satanoperca cf. leucosticta 'Red Amazon'(which are youngsters, the biggest one is about 10-11 cm long.
4x Microgeophagus altispinosa(not breeding or anything, so no agression.
1:2 Apistogramma trifasciata(also, no breeding/agression)
±20 Hemigrammus bleheri
3x Corydoras arcuatus(I know, the group should be a lot bigger, but it's gotten quite uncommon around here, so I bought all arcuatus I could find, this should become a larger group of, at least 12-15)

[Kenneth Wong]

I wounder if they could have starved to death with all those eartheater types I don't know if anything would be left after a feeding. They are good at finding everything on the tank bottom. I don't know if your L200 got enough to eat.

What is your routine for feeding the L200. Did they look thin?

Just my thoughts here.

Ken

[Janne]

In that case we could exclude osmotic changes, parasites too if they look healthy and had a normal stomach and not any sign of sinken eyes. Loricariids are sensitive against bacteria in the substrate, I dont mean a "normal" bacteria load but if the gravel not are clenaed regulary it can be extremely heavy loaded with bacteria. A chemical reaction could start with building up gases that are dangerous for fishes, and when loricariids are living on the bottom they are also the first to be sick or react.
If there would be internal parasites like nematodes they would stop growing more or less and show signs like sunken bellys, but it's always difficult to put a diagnose when all looks fine and there are not much to go on...but fishes just dont die without a reason.

Janne

[Rense]

I wounder if they could have starved to death with all those eartheater types I don't know if anything would be left after a feeding. They are good at finding everything on the tank bottom. I don't know if your L200 got enough to eat.

What is your routine for feeding the L200. Did they look thin?

Just my thoughts here.

Ken

this is the last photo I took from one of the L200, about a week old:


looks pretty good to me.

I have algae wafers, which I feed 2-3 times a week, I put a fairly big piece of cucumber in the tank(which they can't even eat in 24 hours. I remove the cucumber after 24 hours to avoid problems with the water parameters and during the week they eat some plants and they eat what I feed the other fishes, mainly freezed food(mussels, shrimps, soem sort of mix between shrimps and peas and gelatine, the famous 'cichlid-mix' They seem to eat everything and they seemed to do just fine.

@Janne: I do have a fairly thick layer of substrate(sand, mixed with aquarium gravel), but the Cory's and Satanoperca's are constantly 'digging' in the substrate, so I guess that should be fine as well, doesn't it? I just rearanged some plants a few days back and the sand wasn't rotten or anything(at least, I didn't smell anything) and there where no bubbles of gas coming out of the substrate.

but it's always difficult to put a diagnose when all looks fine and there are not much to go on...but fishes just dont die without a reason.

yup, it sure is difficult I've really checked everything and I can't see anything different than before the 2 died, that's why I can't find a real explanation for the 2 dead L200

thanx for all the help so far guys!

[puertoayacucho]

A very important parameter to take a look at with most Orinoco mainstream and tributary loricarids is D.O. - The load of fish, circulation of the water column, among several other factors, such as amount of food and residues settling on bottom and if there is any CO2 supplementation can be considered. These fish come from very well oxygenated waters. Once undetected, unsuspected low D.O. levels persist(which might not affect other fish as fast) for an extended period of time, there immune systems are easily offset and I guess you can deduct what comes with this.
Ed

[Rense]

A very important parameter to take a look at with most Orinoco mainstream and tributary loricarids is D.O. - The load of fish, circulation of the water column, among several other factors, such as amount of food and residues settling on bottom and if there is any CO2 supplementation can be considered. These fish come from very well oxygenated waters. Once undetected, unsuspected low D.O. levels persist(which might not affect other fish as fast) for an extended period of time, there immune systems are easily offset and I guess you can deduct what comes with this.
Ed

So you think there it can be that there's not enought oxygen in the water? would it help to put in one of these(I don't know the english word for it ?


with an air pump offcourse ;)

[puertoayacucho]

Hi Rense, of course an air diffuser and air pump will help as a first step. Make sure to allow free circulation of air above the aquarium.
Still, I would suggest... 1. More frequent water changing (and gravel cleansing) with water of the right quality (pH,DH - for this species, I would suggest < 6 pH and < 3 DH.) 2. The use of a good UV and/or Ozonizer.
The latter will kill bacteria, fungi, algae most of which consume a good amount of oxygen in your tank water.
I would also suggest you deparasite you fish, to avoid any pathogen related problems.
Ed

[grandhorn]

I have 2 of the L200 and 1 L128 as well as numerous other species which I won't list. They are absolutely compulsive zucchini eaters....almost to the point of obsessive! I agree with the fact that you need circulation in there. If you didn't have any supplimental air circulation, that is a major issue. I have two 420gph Rio powerheads in my 125 in addition to two canister filters and there are still "dead" spots where debris collects.

[PlecoCrazy]

This might just be a stab but I used to sometimes have problems loosing Fancy Pleco's when I first started and one thing that I was doing wrong was putting my PH and other parameters perfect in the tank before getting my fish. Well the fish store where I bought my fish does nothing to there water. Straight out of the ground with our hard Indiana Limestone with a PH of around 7.8-8.2. Well I would have the same problem as you and it appears that it was the shock of going from the fish store parameters to what my tank was at. Once I started matching my parameters rather close to the fish store's I had a much better success rate. I then adjust the parameters after the fish have settled in for a week or so. The fish did usually look pretty good when I got them, they ate and lasted beyond the 2 day warranty great but then would rapidly just go downhill during the course of a day a week or so after getting them. You said your PH was 6.4. That seems lower than what a fish store would normally have. Just a guess.