Oto deaths

Nautica · Post by **Nautica** » 31 Mar 2003, 01:54

I had no idea which forum to put this in. I looked up otos, but it doesn't give the family name so I'm guessing. Please move if needed.

I bought four otos for my 20 gal long. It's been running for nearly 4 months and is finally loaded with algae. We have high pH at 8, but most lfs don't tamper with it. Rather, fish are acclimated to the high pH. Otos are seen in many lfs around here.

I decided to put them into quarantine using a fully seeded bio-wheel and I put some fake plants that had lots of algae on the leaves. Mostly green, some brown.

I acclimated them over 2 hours, floating the bag and adding a little tank water at half hour intervals before finally adding them to tank.

They did fine. The ones I got all had well rounded bellies so I thought they were healthy. Now I'm wondering. On day 5, I found one dead - no signs of illness. On day 6 another. I decided to just put the remaining two in the 20 gal where there was more algae available and more cover. On day 10, I noticed the remaining two were getting more listless and breathing rapidly. Ammonia and Nitrite were at 0, Nitrate at < 10 ppm. Temp at 77. One had a small amount of blood at the anal opening - about the size of a pin head. I decided to watch and the next morning, it was apparent that he was hemoragging internally as it was easy to see through his relatively transparent underside. I moved him immediately to hospital tank where he later died.

The last one remaining continues to be listless and has a well rounded belly despite not really eating from what I can see. He is breathing rapidly. I am expecting to find him dead by morning if he goes the way the others did. Other than the one, none showed any signs of illness, other than well-rounded bellies which I took to be healthy.

Could they have succumbed to a sudden food source after being starved? I've read about that somewhere. I'm wondering if the one who hemoragged, actually had an intestinal blockage.

Could my pH have caused such a delayed reaction? Before I realized their was one bleeding, I had purchased 3 more, writing it off to simple oto mortality. They are in my 20 gal looking pretty good, not quite the rounded bellies. They are more active at this time too than the other ones ever were.

Post by **Silurus** » 31 Mar 2003, 03:08

The pH is too high for <i>Otocinclus</i>. That said, the symptoms you describe are not due to the high pH. Sounds like the fish are suffering from an infection that led to the internal hemorrhaging and dropsy (swollen belly).
And yes, this is the correct forum for a post on otos.

Nautica · Post by **Nautica** » 31 Mar 2003, 03:47

That being said, what antibiotic is effective yet safe for otos? Is Maracyn 2 at lower doses safe? I could find no info on this med and its affects on scaleless fish. I believe the last one will check out tonite, but can't be sure. I don't like him being alone in the hospital tank, but what else can I do? I need to know for future treatment meds safe for otos - that is, if my 3 new ones survive and don't get what the others had.

I'm concerned for the 20 gal long where I had them for a short time. I have cories in there and 3 new otos that appear healthy at the moment. I don't know if I should treat the tank, or just watch.

What are the symptoms of high pH sickness? Would it manifest itself quickly (within hours), or slowly over time? If these survive any amount of time is there a need to play with my pH? I've seen more people kill fish doing that than just leaving well enough alone.

I did a 20% water change tonite and added a small amount of distilled water (<1/2 gallon out of 4 gallons for a 20 gal long).

CATWITHOUTHAT · Post by **CATWITHOUTHAT** » 31 Mar 2003, 16:09

i think you may have simply got a poor batch from your dealer...also if you simply take some sort of organic material ie tree bark (slightly rotted...or better by far peat, make sure if you use something from outside you clean it) simply put it in your filter bag or near the impeller and this will help lower your ph to a more suitable level for otos...also make sure they are given a spirulina pellet or two b4 you turn off hte lights every couple of days...i wouldnt expect then to live on algae alone...although they are excellent algae eaters they should still be fed...try shrimp pellets or algae wafers or spirulina pellets i think they would be thankful...like i said however i dont see a reason to fed them every day esp if you want them to clean your tank

ben

Post by **Silurus** » 31 Mar 2003, 17:14

What are the symptoms of high pH sickness?

The skin of the fish appears whitish, and the fins begin to fray. At high pH, ammonia poisoning is also likely to occur (characterized by hemorrhaging in the gills, skin and internal organs), although this doeas not appear to be the case with your fish.

Nautica · Post by **Nautica** » 05 Apr 2003, 22:33

Thanks everyone. Nope - no ammonia poisoning as ammonia and nitrite are 0. Bio-filtration has been solid for over two months now. I do know that the effects of ammonia in alkaline water are much more toxic than they are with more acidic water.

I have a suspicion that even though they weren't emaciated, they had worms. Before the last two of four succumbed to the same thing, I bought 3 more from the same place

I know - seemingly stupid, but I thought I was dealing with typical oto mortality. The only other place that sold them in my area - I witnessed them eating slime coat and figured that wasn't good either. That tells me they were mighty hungry. I've read about "attack otos", but I think its more a matter of not having enough proper food.

Once the last two got listless I put them into a hospital tank knowing fully well they were probably going to expire. They did, the same way the others did, but with no outward signs other than the bloated belly (not like dropsey).

I went out and bought some Pepso Food which is medicated food by jungle labs for internal parasites. I put all inhabitants of my tank on this for 3 days including the new otos. One was getting that characteristic, bloated look. I crushed the Pepso in a pill crusher and dropped some of the powder down into a corner where they were active. They sucked it right up off of some smooth stones. Saw some long stringy, beige, transparent poop coming out of one the next day. After treatment was done, all looked exceptionally healthy and bloated look on the one was gone. This, inspite of eating all of the green algae on my driftwood virtually overnight. They have full looking bellies, not bloated. Hopefully, I've seen the end of it, but I'm thinking of running another 3 day treatement in a week in case any eggs or larvae are lurking in the tank.