Glossary questions and requests

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 28 Mar 2006, 20:42

I also just got a copy of the book The World Of Catfishes by Midori Kobayagawa.

That sounds like a really good book. I'll look for it.

Would you agree to reword this:
"Nominal Taxa: A taxon which is denoted by an available name."

to this:
"Nominal Taxon (pl. taxa): A taxon which is denoted by an available name."

A taxonomic taxon seems to be a taxon with a name determined from the nominal taxa in its ranks!
I'm sure that's a simple view.

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 28 Mar 2006, 22:38

Deb,
Is the proper way to to the "plural" bit at the beginning?

Here's the original from ICZN for Taxonomic Taxon:
"A taxon (e.g. family, genus, species) including whatever nominal taxa and individuals a zoologist at any time considers it to contain in his or her endeavour to define the boundaries of a zoological taxon (q.v.). A taxonomic taxon is denoted by the valid name determined from the available names of its included nominal taxa."

I believe it has something to do with the individual scientist and his/her work. Another dictionary has basically the same: http://www.briancoad.com/Dictionary/introduction.htm but it has been re-worked.

Here's my preliminary version:
Taxonomic Taxon: "A taxon which is pertinent to a zoologist in his/her field of study to help define the boundaries of a zoological taxon."

Zoological Taxon:"A natural taxon of animals which may or may not be named."

Natural Taxon: "A taxon with a unique evolutionary decent."

We began with "synonym" and one word leads to another and another. Let's get the "taxon" words squared away. How are we doing?
Amanda

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Mar 2006, 00:18

I would stick to just defining "taxon" and leaving out the rest. As a practising taxonomist, I must say that is the first time I have encountered "zoological taxon" and "taxonomic taxon".
Seriously, how often do those phrases crop up on this website? Let's not get carried away here...

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 29 Mar 2006, 00:18

Amanda wrote:

Is the proper way to to the "plural" bit at the beginning?

That's where the regular dictionary puts it, and I just copied them!

I like your prelim on taxonomic taxon. I just added a little more. How about this?

"Taxonomic Taxon: A taxon including any nominal taxa and individuals pertinent to the study of a particular zoologist in defining the boundaries of a zoological taxon."

That way we get to mention nominal taxa again, and keep the cross-referencing going.

( BTW, my description in the previous post was a little tongue-in-cheek, but it included this idea, from the iczn definition:
"A taxonomic taxon is denoted by the valid name determined from the available names of its included nominal taxa." )

What do you think of this for taxon:
"Taxon: A population or group of populations with characteristics in common which separates it from other such populations; a taxonomic unit or entity."

It's basically the same as yours, but it brings in the phrases "taxonomic unit" and "entity" which were used freely in the other descriptions. I feel like we need to use the same phrases and descriptions in these definitions, so that people will see how they go together. Do you think so?
You've got nominal taxon and zoological taxon (new one!) ready to go, I think. The others should be chiming in at any minute ... of course, it's probably midnight where they live ...

Deborah

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Mar 2006, 01:02

Here is a basic neurocranium (skull) picture for use in defining the bones.

Ultimately, I think the guide should be interactive, so that when one moves the cursor over a particular bone, it is shaded out in color and the name is displayed. If someone volunteers to color out each bone, I can provide a larger pic and the names.

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Mar 2006, 03:39

Something like this:

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 29 Mar 2006, 06:21

If it's as simple as it looks, I volunteer to color out each bone. If it involves learning how to use a program, I could probably learn it but someone would have to take the time to show me.

So, if that won't work, maybe there is someone who already knows how to do this ...

Also, I see you (HH) and I posted at exactly the same time, 11:18 pm, earlier. I didn't get to read yours, before I posted mine. I admit to getting carried away! (Is there an embarrassed Bugs Bunny grin emoticon?)

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 29 Mar 2006, 14:49

Seriously, how often do those phrases crop up on this website? Let's not get carried away here...

Two minds of a single thought, HH.

I was going to post something quite similar. I apologize for getting out of hand. I'm trying to run a marathon before I learn to walk. I'm also thinking of leaving out Objective Synonym and Subjective Synonym for now. We don't see these on Planet Catfish. But, we see Synonym, Junior Synonym and Senior Synonym. The work you've done on these terms is fabulous, Deb. I've tried to pare this down a bit:
Synonym: "In general, another name for the same thing. In zoology, each of two(or more) different names for the same taxon or taxonomic entity."

Junior Synonym: "The later established of two synonyms. A Senior Synonym has priority over a Junior Synonym."

Senior Synonym: "The earlier established of two synonyms. A Senior Synonym has priority over a Junior Synonym"

HH, there was a photo in the Corydora section a few weeks back with a close-up of a dorsal fin. The spine and rays were numbered.http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=15035

I can help with the illustrations.

Amanda

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 29 Mar 2006, 15:16

I agree. Let's leave out Objective and Subjective Synonyms. I like your final definitions of Synonym, Junior, and Senior, and if HH agrees, I think we should go with those. Since the word "taxon" comes up in the definition for synonym, how can we leave it out? Would you agree to add taxon to the glossary?

"Taxon: A population or group of populations with characteristics in common which separates it from other such populations; a taxonomic unit or entity."

Thanks for the nice words. I don't regret one single minute I spent on those definitions.

I learned a tremendous amount, and I know it will be put to good use at some time.

Deborah

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Mar 2006, 15:28

Amanda,

Do you have any experience with vector graphics programs (like Adobe Illustrator)? The coloring of the bones are easiest done in those.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 29 Mar 2006, 15:33

Deb, this will be a continuous process. Some terms will be more problematic than others. Some times will be crazier, due to work(the kind that earns the fish food). So, feel free to pop in and participate as little or as much as you wish.

Silurus, I have Adobe Photoshop Elements for graphics(I don't think Autocad will work for this).
Amanda

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Mar 2006, 15:55

Amanda,

I have not tried this in Photoshop (it is very likely possible), and I have no idea if there might be features missing in Elements (since I work with the full version of Photoshop) that might hinder this process.

The easiest way to do this is to trace the outline of each bone as a closed shape, and then have the program color the shape. You might want to download the unedited image from the earlier post and see if you can color the bones (I suggest that you create a new layer, use the pencil tool to trace the outline as a closed shape, and then change the fill color...I used pure red at 50% transparency). If that can be done, remember to merge all layers before saving to reduce file size.

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Mar 2006, 22:04

Not terribly difficult once you get the hang of it:

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Mar 2006, 09:39

Silurus/Amanda,

Photoshop elements should be fine for this - it's only some of the really advanced functions in the "proper" PhotoShop that is missing in Elements - it's still got layers, almost all of the drawing tools and most of the filters. It's also got a "more user friendly interface" which I personally don't like because I'm more used to "proper" PhotoShop - but it's almost all there...

--
Mats

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 30 Mar 2006, 15:12

When time permits, here's a couple more to consider adding:

Contaminant - A term used by fish importers to identify a fish not of the same species as the shipment. Some hobbyists scour the shops hoping to find contaminants!

Pelvic - of the pelvis, or hips. For fins, another name for ventral fins.

Papilla - pl. papillae, a small projecting body part, as in genital papilla.

I've seen the term "papillae" used in books to describe the regular rows of bumps forming "lines" from head to tail on banjo catfish but I didn't see it used that way in the Cat-e-log.

Deborah.

Post by **Silurus** » 30 Mar 2006, 15:34

The bumps on the skin are usually referred to as tubercles, although I think the difference between the two terms is slight (tubercle appears to be used when the structure is more keratinized).

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Mar 2006, 15:41

I'd like to add
Benthopelagic - living near bottom but also swimming in mid- or upper waters.
Pelagic - Living away from the bottom. Opposite of benthic.

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 30 Mar 2006, 16:04

That's odd. I was also checking pelagic, due to the sentence: Ageneiosidae are pelagic species, in which pelagic means of the open water and living near the surface.
Yet all dictionaries I've checked seem to link pelagic to oceans/seas/large bodies of salt water.
Anyone?

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 30 Mar 2006, 16:35

I was just looking into this too. Pelagic always says the "open sea"; the emphasis is definitely on "open" in every case. I think Mats is right about the character of pelagic implying away from the bottom and out in the open, but the word does seem to apply just to seawater.

Benthic means at the bottom of any body of water, seawater included.

I couldn't find a synonym for freshwater or an antonym for "pelagic" or "benthic".

Deborah

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Mar 2006, 17:18

Looking at Fishbase, they do refer to Benthic as "Body of water", and only relevant "see also" is Pelagic, which talks mostly about oceans but also uses the term "Body of water", which is not necessarily meaning salty water.

Also, fishbase uses pelagic in it's description of Neon and Cardinal Tetra, which to me says that it's fine for freshwater fish (and not just a typo on one fish either).

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 30 Mar 2006, 18:04

Okay, if there's no semantic problem they should go in.
Don't forget to add all three (pelagic, benthopelagic and benthic), as the latter is somewhat hidden in Mats' sentence " Pelagic - Living away from the bottom. Opposite of benthic".

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Mar 2006, 18:12

Benthic is already there, so I didn't think there's any reason to redefine it... But I thought for this, we should have the complete set - not ALL Catfish are Benthic... [In fact fishbase has many Loricariidae defined as Benthopelagic, which is why I knew what that term meant...

--
Mats

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 30 Mar 2006, 20:15

deb wrote:If it's as simple as it looks, I volunteer to color out each bone. If it involves learning how to use a program, I could probably learn it but someone would have to take the time to show me.

I've been sitting on my hands on this for a long time (since mid 2004). I had planned to do something like what you see in the link below but with Silurus' previosuly supplied anatomy diagram (not the one in this post).

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/so_am_map.php

Anyone know how to create macromedia flash / shockwave files out there?

Jools

PS Anadromous

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 30 Mar 2006, 20:38

I'm going to put the synonym group in and then attack the next group of words suggested. I also have three pages of words we haven't gotten to yet. We'll save them for a rainy day.

Pelagic: "Living at the middle and/or upper levels of a lake, river or ocean."

Benthic is already in there as "Living at the bottom of a lake, river or ocean." Is this acceptable?

Benthopelagic: I've found two different definitions. One from Brian Coad: "Living just above the bottom of a...." and Fishbase, which is the same as Marc's. Which is correct?

Pelvic is pelvic. Please forgive my ignorance, but do both males and females have genital papillae?

I'll have some time over this weekend to play with the illustrations. (I have layering and the pencil tool, etc.) Is this timing okay, Silurus?

Can you please check the link, Jools?

Anadromous: Fish who spend their lives in the ocean and migrate to freshwater when it's time to reproduce.

Catadromous: Fish who spend their lives in freshwater and migrate to the ocean when it's time to reproduce.

But I believe Salmon are potamodromous....
Amanda

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 30 Mar 2006, 20:46

Jools wrote:http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/so_am_map.php

Works for me???

Jools

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Mar 2006, 20:57

bronzefry wrote:I'm going to put the synonym group in and then attack the next group of words suggested. I also have three pages of words we haven't gotten to yet. We'll save them for a rainy day.

I'll let you know when it rains here - or if you want e-mail it to me I'll see what I can come up with... But I'm off work 'til monday now.

Pelagic: "Living at the middle and/or upper levels of a lake, river or ocean."

Benthic is already in there as "Living at the bottom of a lake, river or ocean." Is this acceptable?

Benthopelagic: I've found two different definitions. One from Brian Coad: "Living just above the bottom of a...." and Fishbase, which is the same as Marc's. Which is correct?

I'd go for the fisbase one - as it seems to match what they describe many fish as.

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 30 Mar 2006, 21:10

The link suddenly works. I must have one of those "selective" computers. That is incredibly cool! Oh, my!!!!!

Nitrate
Nitrite
pH
Kh
Gh
Chlorine
Chloramine

Let's just start with those seven. I appreciate the hand, Mats.

Another from Shane's list
Gonads: "Reproductive organs. Ovaries in females. Testes in males."
Amanda

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 31 Mar 2006, 00:02

Okay, you asked for it ...

GH - General, or permanent hardness, is called GH, and is the measurement of calcium and magnesium salts dissolved in the water.

KH - Carbonate, bicarbonate, or temporary hardness is called KH, and is the measurement of calcium and magnesium bicarbonates in the water.

pH - The term pH is a combination of the mathematical symbol p, representing negative logarithms, and H, the chemical symbol for hydrogen. Basically, pH is a simple way of representing the concentration of hydrogen ions in the water. Hydrogen concentrations are extremely small numbers, so pH converts them to easy-to-understand numbers. Hydrogen ions are positively charged hydrogen atoms whose number in the water indicates how readily they will react with other substances.

The pH scale is a "negative log 10" scale, and goes from 0.0 to 14.0. Water with a pH under 7.0 is called acidic, and water with a pH over 7.0 is called alkaline, or basic. A pH of 7.0 is called neutral. Acidic water has many more hydrogen ions than alkaline water.

This is only part of a much more complete article that I wrote for another website. Feel free to use as is, paraphrase, ignore, or ask me for more. (Ha!) Seriously, for this site, I'd just go with the second sentence (highlighted) of the definition for pH.

Deborah

Post by **Shane** » 31 Mar 2006, 01:45

pH = pondus Hydrogeni

-Shane

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 31 Mar 2006, 08:32

I think we should define conductivity in terms of its use to aquarists too.

Jools