Hi there. Found this site whilst googling pl*cs. Cool site with loadsa info .
I am currently having a problem with my common pl*c. He's about 5 yrs and around 7 inches. He's was given to me by my dad around 6 months ago along with his companion goldfish, in the same tank he's always been in. Anyway i had a fungus/velvet problem a few weeks ago which i treated successfully and my dad has tested the water which he says is fine ( sorry haven't got readings). Anyway the other night i thought the pl*c had died but when i looked he was really poorly at the bottom of the tank. I visited my aquariam the next day and was told to treat the water with aquarium salts and stress coat. He is getting better but isn't eating and worryingly has gone a very pale shade underneath and around his fins and his mouth looks like it is permanently distended and is quite lethargic.
Anyone any ideas? I am a complete novice but desperately don't want to lose him. Am willing to learn. We've all got to start somewhere haven't we?
Please help
poorly pl*c, please help
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MatsP
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This should probably be moved by a moderator to the Loricariidae section.
I'd also like to ask for the water test values as "fine" by one person could be not so good by another, and more importantly the actual numbers can tell us more than just "fine" or "bad" - they are very important in understanding the problems of the fish. This would be pH, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia.
Also temperature - goldfish are generally happy at a much lower temperature than pleco's - the former liking temperatures below 22'C, the latter liking temperatures around 25'C. Since the metabolic rate of the fish is related to the temperature, raising the temperature will improve the likelyhood of the fish eating - although if the water quality (for example) is bad, then a higher temperature will not necessarily help much.
Final question: What size is the tank? A small tank with large fish (such as common pleco and goldfish) can quickly go from good to bad simply because there's very little dilution capacity in the water volume.
Note also that getting fungus is generally an indication of something going wrong with the water quality - at least if the fish isn't very newly moved from one tank to another, in which case the stress of moving in itself will be a factor.
I wouldn't add salt to any tank containing freshwater fish - unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing and you have a specific illness you want to treat.
Stress coat is certainly not a bad idea - I use it with every water-change.
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Mats
I'd also like to ask for the water test values as "fine" by one person could be not so good by another, and more importantly the actual numbers can tell us more than just "fine" or "bad" - they are very important in understanding the problems of the fish. This would be pH, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia.
Also temperature - goldfish are generally happy at a much lower temperature than pleco's - the former liking temperatures below 22'C, the latter liking temperatures around 25'C. Since the metabolic rate of the fish is related to the temperature, raising the temperature will improve the likelyhood of the fish eating - although if the water quality (for example) is bad, then a higher temperature will not necessarily help much.
Final question: What size is the tank? A small tank with large fish (such as common pleco and goldfish) can quickly go from good to bad simply because there's very little dilution capacity in the water volume.
Note also that getting fungus is generally an indication of something going wrong with the water quality - at least if the fish isn't very newly moved from one tank to another, in which case the stress of moving in itself will be a factor.
I wouldn't add salt to any tank containing freshwater fish - unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing and you have a specific illness you want to treat.
Stress coat is certainly not a bad idea - I use it with every water-change.
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Mats
Thanks for that Mats. Think i will buy a water testing kit asap just to make sure. Hope it has the correct figures with it cos i haven't a clue!
The fungus came from a new fish i bought - in hindsight i know i should have isolated it first! Won't do that again. The tank is 94 gallons and has the pl*c, a large goldfish (6") a black moor (5") and the new fish which is very little. So i don't think its overstocked! Its got a good under gravel filter which my dad gave me and keeps the water chrystal clear - although i'm starting to think that really isn't a good indicator.
I put the salts in on the advice of the guys at the aquarium but i,m reading so much different advice i'm getting in a pickle!!LOL
The fungus came from a new fish i bought - in hindsight i know i should have isolated it first! Won't do that again. The tank is 94 gallons and has the pl*c, a large goldfish (6") a black moor (5") and the new fish which is very little. So i don't think its overstocked! Its got a good under gravel filter which my dad gave me and keeps the water chrystal clear - although i'm starting to think that really isn't a good indicator.
I put the salts in on the advice of the guys at the aquarium but i,m reading so much different advice i'm getting in a pickle!!LOL
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MatsP
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Unfortunately, getting good advice isn't easy. Having different advice from different people isn't helping much either... Not much you can do about that on the internet, because there's always lots of differing opinions.
Quarantine tanks are a good idea, as you've just discovered... Also, the Q-tank can be used as a hospital tank when you have fish that are unhealthy, which both helps on not adding medication to the other fish [and sometimes the medication is just as bad as the illness for some fish - particularly bad combination is of course strong medicines and fish that are not ill!]
As long as you have a very small amount of salt, it shouldn't make much difference. But I'd recommend you do water changes without added salt, so that eventually the water is free from salt. You still haven't said how often you change water.
The test-kit will have some sort of advice sheet with it, but if you post the numbers here, you'll almost certainly get some useful advice.
You're quite right, crystal clear water is not necessarily a good indicator of the actual water quality [it is an indication on the amount of particles in the water, but those are, generally, by far less harmfull than some of the chemical pollutants that you can't see!].
94 gallon seems more than adequate space for those fish, indeed.
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Mats
Quarantine tanks are a good idea, as you've just discovered... Also, the Q-tank can be used as a hospital tank when you have fish that are unhealthy, which both helps on not adding medication to the other fish [and sometimes the medication is just as bad as the illness for some fish - particularly bad combination is of course strong medicines and fish that are not ill!]
As long as you have a very small amount of salt, it shouldn't make much difference. But I'd recommend you do water changes without added salt, so that eventually the water is free from salt. You still haven't said how often you change water.
The test-kit will have some sort of advice sheet with it, but if you post the numbers here, you'll almost certainly get some useful advice.
You're quite right, crystal clear water is not necessarily a good indicator of the actual water quality [it is an indication on the amount of particles in the water, but those are, generally, by far less harmfull than some of the chemical pollutants that you can't see!].
94 gallon seems more than adequate space for those fish, indeed.
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Mats
Thanks MatsP
The pl*c is looking much better and has started to eat so fingers crossed it might be panic over! He's still looking a bit pale underneath and around the fins though. Any ideas why this has happened? I usually change 10% of the water every 10 days or so. Is this too little or too much? I treat with stress coat on the water change but it is the first time i have used salts and proberly won't do again ( i was willing to try anything though at the time).Am starting to think you may be right about the medicine causing the problem - pl*c became ill after 2nd dose and a 30% water change! That q-tank will be used in future!(although i thought it best to treat whole tank for velvet even though you could only see it on the moor)
Another question though - i feed normal flake food once a day and a couple of algae wafers for the pl*c and usually don't feed at all for one day of the week. Have tried cucumber but have trouble sticking it down!! Pl*c loves it though! What do you think about feeding live bloodworms occasionally? Woman in pet shop swears by them and i must say fish love them but dad says they may cause probs by burrowing into gravel. What do you reckon?
Thanks for your advise its much appreciated.
Cath
The pl*c is looking much better and has started to eat so fingers crossed it might be panic over! He's still looking a bit pale underneath and around the fins though. Any ideas why this has happened? I usually change 10% of the water every 10 days or so. Is this too little or too much? I treat with stress coat on the water change but it is the first time i have used salts and proberly won't do again ( i was willing to try anything though at the time).Am starting to think you may be right about the medicine causing the problem - pl*c became ill after 2nd dose and a 30% water change! That q-tank will be used in future!(although i thought it best to treat whole tank for velvet even though you could only see it on the moor)
Another question though - i feed normal flake food once a day and a couple of algae wafers for the pl*c and usually don't feed at all for one day of the week. Have tried cucumber but have trouble sticking it down!! Pl*c loves it though! What do you think about feeding live bloodworms occasionally? Woman in pet shop swears by them and i must say fish love them but dad says they may cause probs by burrowing into gravel. What do you reckon?
Thanks for your advise its much appreciated.
Cath
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MatsP
- Posts: 21038
- Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 13:58
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- My BLogs: 4 (i:0, p:97)
- Spotted: 187
- Location 1: North of Cambridge
- Location 2: England.
How much water you need to change is VERY dependant on the actual inhabitants of the tank combined with the quality of the water when you put it in [if it's horrible like mine with 25 ppm nitrate in the first place, it's obviously not possible to keep below 25 ppm... But I aim to keep it well below 50, so it means changing quite a bit of water every week, as the fish still produce waste...]
10% every week or so is fine if you have a lightly stocked tank, but if you have a bit more stock in the tank than you REALLY should have [like most of us have
] you may need to change more water and/or more often.
I feed my fish flake or granule food (depending on type of fish - granules are better for bottom-feeding fish), as well as live bloodworms, frozen bloodworms, fr. mysis shrimp and various vegetables for my plecos.
If the veg doesn't sink by itself, it usually does if you pierce it on a teaspoon or similar. I find that Courgette (Zucchini) is a better food than cucumber (because it's only 90% water, rather than 99% water in cucumber). Both are, however, very good for insoluble fibre content. As is potato, sweet potato, squash, melon, pumpkin, amongst other things.
Live bloodworms MAY burrow into the gravel, but I've never been able to see it happen in any of my tanks - they usually get eaten before they reach the floor of the tank. If they do burrow, it's not a problem - they have to get out of the water to become midgies, and they will be eaten at that point if you have a decent size goldfish in there... Tubifex, which is another live worm can cause a problem with hiding in the gravel, but those aren't what you'd buy in the shop as bloodworms [at least not the ones marked Mosquito Larvae/Myggenlarven that I get].
Don't feed goldfish too much bloodworms, as they are high protein/low fibre content, and particularly the fancy goldfish can get problems with their digestive tract if they get too much protein - same applies to your pleco, of course [and algae wafers, despite their name, contains LOTS of protein, around 35% of the content is protein].
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Mats
10% every week or so is fine if you have a lightly stocked tank, but if you have a bit more stock in the tank than you REALLY should have [like most of us have
] you may need to change more water and/or more often.I feed my fish flake or granule food (depending on type of fish - granules are better for bottom-feeding fish), as well as live bloodworms, frozen bloodworms, fr. mysis shrimp and various vegetables for my plecos.
If the veg doesn't sink by itself, it usually does if you pierce it on a teaspoon or similar. I find that Courgette (Zucchini) is a better food than cucumber (because it's only 90% water, rather than 99% water in cucumber). Both are, however, very good for insoluble fibre content. As is potato, sweet potato, squash, melon, pumpkin, amongst other things.
Live bloodworms MAY burrow into the gravel, but I've never been able to see it happen in any of my tanks - they usually get eaten before they reach the floor of the tank. If they do burrow, it's not a problem - they have to get out of the water to become midgies, and they will be eaten at that point if you have a decent size goldfish in there... Tubifex, which is another live worm can cause a problem with hiding in the gravel, but those aren't what you'd buy in the shop as bloodworms [at least not the ones marked Mosquito Larvae/Myggenlarven that I get].
Don't feed goldfish too much bloodworms, as they are high protein/low fibre content, and particularly the fancy goldfish can get problems with their digestive tract if they get too much protein - same applies to your pleco, of course [and algae wafers, despite their name, contains LOTS of protein, around 35% of the content is protein].
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Mats
Thanks again for the info MatsB! 
Happy to say the pl*c is back to normal, swimming,feeding etc and the pale colour has gone from the underside of him.Will try the tip with the cucumber although might buy a screwcumber they look handy!
I tend to feed live bloodworms about once a month and will be careful with them cause i fed them once and ended up with a fancy goldfish up side down for two days!!! Now i know why!The larger goldfish have taken a liking to algae pellets though and have taken to pinching them before the pl*c.
Actually with him being ill there's a bit of cleaning up for him to do in the tank so should keep him happy for a day or two!
Thanks again
Cath
Happy to say the pl*c is back to normal, swimming,feeding etc and the pale colour has gone from the underside of him.Will try the tip with the cucumber although might buy a screwcumber they look handy!
I tend to feed live bloodworms about once a month and will be careful with them cause i fed them once and ended up with a fancy goldfish up side down for two days!!! Now i know why!The larger goldfish have taken a liking to algae pellets though and have taken to pinching them before the pl*c.
Actually with him being ill there's a bit of cleaning up for him to do in the tank so should keep him happy for a day or two!
Thanks again
Cath
Hi there - again!!
I feel a bit silly asking this but here goes!
I keep reading about wood being essential for a pl*cs wellbeing. What sort of wood should i use etc etc. I just have rocks in which he seems quite happy to hide behind ( in fact he does spend an awful lot of time just chilling in the open part of the tank and only hides when tank is approached.
Again any advice will be gratefully received.
Thanks
Cath
I feel a bit silly asking this but here goes!
I keep reading about wood being essential for a pl*cs wellbeing. What sort of wood should i use etc etc. I just have rocks in which he seems quite happy to hide behind ( in fact he does spend an awful lot of time just chilling in the open part of the tank and only hides when tank is approached.
Again any advice will be gratefully received.
Thanks
Cath
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MatsP
- Posts: 21038
- Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 13:58
- My articles: 4
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- My cats species list: 117 (i:33, k:0)
- My aquaria list: 10 (i:8)
- My BLogs: 4 (i:0, p:97)
- Spotted: 187
- Location 1: North of Cambridge
- Location 2: England.
Wood contains a lot of fibre, and it appears that a lot of plecos will chew (gnaw?) on wood to get some extra fibre in the diet. The common species aren't wood-eaters as such, but there are some that get most of the food by eating wood, such as Panaque spp.
As Jonno said, the safest/easiest thing is to get some aquarium wood from the LFS, but if you want to "pick your own", you can use just about any leafy tree, including branches of garden-fruit trees (apple, pear, cherry, peach, plum) or many "decorative" or native trees (ash, birch, beech, oak, willow, hazel, chestnut, grape-vine etc). Dead branches are better than live ones, so if you have some old branches laying about, then those would be fine. Avoid anything like Yew-tree (poisonous), Cedar (poisonous) or fir/spruce (contains a lot of resin which may cause problems).
I have a big branch of cherry and some pieces of "curvy wood", that I found in my neighbours wood-pile, in my tank, as well as several pieces of Mopani (african root-pieces - they are heavy and sink even when dry).
Any wood that goes in the tank should at the very least be soaked for a day or two in a bucket/tub of water.
"PYO" wood would require some more soaking to get water-logged and sink (but I have so far not seen a piece of wood that doesn't eventually get water-logged and sink). You may also want to boil/dish-wash the piece to make sure it's clear of any wood-eating parasites that may cause problems with the tank.
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Mats
As Jonno said, the safest/easiest thing is to get some aquarium wood from the LFS, but if you want to "pick your own", you can use just about any leafy tree, including branches of garden-fruit trees (apple, pear, cherry, peach, plum) or many "decorative" or native trees (ash, birch, beech, oak, willow, hazel, chestnut, grape-vine etc). Dead branches are better than live ones, so if you have some old branches laying about, then those would be fine. Avoid anything like Yew-tree (poisonous), Cedar (poisonous) or fir/spruce (contains a lot of resin which may cause problems).
I have a big branch of cherry and some pieces of "curvy wood", that I found in my neighbours wood-pile, in my tank, as well as several pieces of Mopani (african root-pieces - they are heavy and sink even when dry).
Any wood that goes in the tank should at the very least be soaked for a day or two in a bucket/tub of water.
"PYO" wood would require some more soaking to get water-logged and sink (but I have so far not seen a piece of wood that doesn't eventually get water-logged and sink). You may also want to boil/dish-wash the piece to make sure it's clear of any wood-eating parasites that may cause problems with the tank.
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Mats