Glossary questions and requests

Post by **Silurus** » 19 Mar 2006, 19:53

Alarm substance is unique to Ostariophysi (Gonorhynchiformes+Otophysi). It is not released until skin damage occurs (e.g. when a member of the shoal is attacked) and ruptures the specialized cells that produce it. Interestingly, alarm substance shows up in the feces of predatory fish that have eaten ostariophysans, and ostariophysans will show the fright response when exposed to it.

And many catfishes don't use gill rakers much in feeding. Some catfishes do (Hypophthalmus comes to mind), but most don't. Anyways, fishes that use their rakers primarily in feeding (herrings are the best example) have very long rakers and a great many number of them per gill arch.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 19 Mar 2006, 20:04

Then, gill rakers should be put on the back burner for now. Gills would probably be a better place to start. I think I got ahead of myself.

Gills: Respiratory organs of fish.

I'm going to re-write the Alarm Substance def.

Post by **Shane** » 19 Mar 2006, 21:41

From the glossary of Skelton's "A Complete Guide to the Freshwater Fishes of Southern Africa"

alimentary canal: the gut track from the mouth to the anus

anterior: near or towards the front of; the front section

benthic: on or near the bottom

branched ray: a divided, segmented fin ray

branchial: pertaining to the gills

buccal: pertaining to the mouth or cheek

casque: helmut-like structure

compressd: flattened from side to side

dentition: the arrangement of the teeth

depressed: flattened from top to bottom

derived: an advanced state or condition evolved from a more primitive one

distal: furthest away

emarginate: slightly indented edge

euryhaline: tolerant of a wide range of salinities

filamentous: thin and thread-like

gonads: the internal reproductive organs (either testes or ovaries)

inferior: below or underneath, opposite of superior

keel: a narrow hard ridge

lateral: on the side of

lunate: crescent shaped, like a crescent moon

nape: the dorsal part of the body immediately after the head

nuchal: body region behind the head

oviparous: producing eggs that are fertilized, develop, and hatch after being laid

posterior: behind, at or near the end of

potamodromous: migrating in freshwaters

ray: a rod-like fin support

reticulate: forming a network

riffle: shallow rocky river reach with turbulant flowing water

rugose: rough or wrinkled

scute: a shield-like boney plate

truncate: with a straight edge; square cut

turbid: muddy or murky water due to the presence of suspended particles

ventral: on or near the lower surface of the body (underside).

villiform: like fine bristles or velvet

-Shane

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Mar 2006, 13:06

Since Jools decided to edit my version, I thought I'd do the same to his [but in a post of my own

], as it's got some minor typos:

School: Broadly the same as a shoal, but is can be used to mean a more compact shoal where all fish have the same orientation and are swimming in close proximty to one another - like the ones forming patterns in the movie Finding Nemo. Usage has a tendency to imply open water marine fish rather than freshwater varieties.

School: Broadly the same as a shoal, but can be used to mean a more compact shoal where all fish have the same orientation and are swimming in close proximty to one another - like the ones forming patterns in the movie Finding Nemo. Usage has a tendency to imply open water marine fish rather than freshwater varieties.

[The difference is a removed "is"].

--
Mats

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 20 Mar 2006, 14:30

May I throw in my two cents and say that the expression "close proximity" is a tautology?
I suggest just saying "in proximity to" or "very close to" each other. What do you say?

Deborah

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 20 Mar 2006, 18:13

Hi Deb,
At first I agreed with you, then I started to wonder whether this is a tautology or a pleonasm and now I think it might be okay after all to indicate the density of such a school.
I do agree with your spelling of proximity

; this should be corrected.
The removed "is" from Mats' post was meant to be "it" imo.

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 20 Mar 2006, 19:13

Marc, I see what you mean. You're picking up on the slight idiomatic quality of the pleonasm in the expression "close proximity."

Therefore, while I still prefer my version, in this case, where you wish to emphasize the "tightness" and single-mindedness of the group, I will yield to your preference!

About this:

The removed "is" from Mats' post was meant to be "it" imo.

I'm sure you're right.

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 20 Mar 2006, 20:03

Thanks for all that, Shane!

Here's the re-write of Alarm Substance:
"Also called Schreckstoff. A compound unique to certain fish known as Ostariophysi. When the skin of an Ostariophysi is damaged, special cells rupture and release Alarm Substance, warning other members of the shoal of imminent danger."

How does that flowwwwwww. Or not.
Amanda

Post by **Silurus** » 20 Mar 2006, 20:07

I would modify it to read:

â??Also called Schreckstoff. A compound unique to a group of fishes known as the Ostariophysi (which includes catfishes). When the skin of an ostariophysan is damaged, special cells rupture and release Alarm Substance, warning other members of the shoal of imminent danger.â?

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 20 Mar 2006, 20:25

In it goes!

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 21 Mar 2006, 18:49

I cross-referenced Shane's new list of words from Skelton's "A Complete Guide To The Freshwater Fishes Of Southern Africa" to two other books:Peterson Field Guides:"Freshwater Fishes" and National Audobon Society "Field Guide To Fishes, North America." Here are the words that are very close in definition(some are identical):
Anterior
Compressed
Depressed
Keel
Lunate
Nape
Posterior
Ray
Truncate
Turbid
It will be difficult to re-write the above. Is it okay to go with the definitions as they are? Please let me know.
Thanks,
Amanda

Post by **Shane** » 21 Mar 2006, 19:14

I do not see why not. You can certainly provide the citations.
-Shane

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:06

Thanks, Shane.

I've found multiple meanings for the word "inferior" for our purposes. Not only does it have the definition from Skelton, but I've also found that it can mean a "downward-slung mouth." The opposite kind of mouth is "terminus." I've seen this contradicted, though. Some sources site "terminus" as just meaning a mouth. Others say "terminus" means an upward-slung mouth and "inferior" means a downward-slung mouth. Any insight?
Amanda

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:17

The following terms refer to mouth orientation:

Inferior - directed downwards

Terminal - directed forwards, i.e. at the tip of the snout

Subterminal - somewhere in between inferior and terminal. A lot of catfishes have subterminal mouths

Superior - directed upwards

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:23

Some breeding terms:
Inbreeding: Breeding close relatives (mother/father x son/daughter, siblings with each other). This is generally considered bad breeding practice as it reduces the variability of the genetics and increases the risk of genetic deformities, etc. It is often used by breeders that try to create specific forms, such as long fins or colour morphs (cf. albino, melanistic, etc)

Linebreeding: A form of inbreeding where the parents are related, but not really closely (i.e. not brother x sister or parent x offspring).

Outcrossing: Adding new blood from an unrelated source - generally used in conjunction with inbreeding/linebreeding to reduce the problems caused by reduced genetic diversity.

Crossbreeding: Similar to outcrossing, but can also be used to indicate different strains or even species being used for parents. Obviously, different species creates a hybrid (see this word).

Anyone for any more?

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 11:35

Here's one that we haven't got yet:

adipose - means fatty or from fat, and in catfish terms, it is used to refer to the small posterior fin that is behind the dorsal fin (but in front of the caudal) on many catfish - as well as several other types of fish: tetras, salmon family.

Comments welcome...

--
Mats

housewren · Post by **housewren** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:49

Here's one that needs defined for the glossary.

What, exactly, is "rostrum" as it relates to catfish? I don't think of catfish as having a beak or a beak-like projection--which is the common scientific definition.

Cheri

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:50

Rostrum is just another term for snout.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Mar 2006, 15:21

MatsP wrote:Here's one that we haven't got yet:
adipose - means fatty or from fat, and in catfish terms, it is used to refer to the small posterior fin that is behind the dorsal fin (but in front of the caudal) on many catfish - as well as several other types of fish: tetras, salmon family.

I would get rid of the word "small", simply because some fish have rather large adipose fins.
Also the brackets may be removed, as well as the part behind catfish, thus making the sentence:
... is used to refer to the fin that sits between the dorsal and caudal fin in many catfishes. An adipose fin can also be found in characins, like tetras. Most cyprinids, like goldfish, don't have one.

Just a suggestion.

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Mar 2006, 15:26

Drop the "in catfish terms", because adipose fins are not unique to catfishes. The definition should strictly cover the term "adipose fin", not the word "adipose".

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 15:58

So:

Adipose fin: Adipose means fatty, it refers to the fin that is between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin on many catfishes. Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin. An adipose fin can also be find in characins (e.g. tetras), but is not present on cyprinids (e.g goldfish).

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:15

I'd love to see definitions, with examples, for the terms:

synonym
junior synonym

Sorry, I can't submit these myself; too afraid of getting it wrong.

Deborah

housewren · Post by **housewren** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:19

I think "adipose fin" should be designated as rayless, to distinguish it from a second dorsal fin, which has rays.

Also there is a typo in the 3rd sentence

So may be:

Adipose fin: Adipose means fatty, it refers to the rayless fin that is between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin on many catfishes. Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin. An adipose fin can also be found in characins (e.g. tetras). . . .

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:51

Thanks to Housewren for spotting the typo and pointing out that rayless is definitely an mportant part of the adipose fin [I did know that the adipose fin doesn't have rays, but didn't think about adding it to the post]

Ok, so third attempt:
Adipose fin: Adipose means fatty, it refers to the rayless fin that is between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin on many catfishes. Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin. An adipose fin can also be found in characins (e.g. tetras), but is not present on cyprinids (e.g goldfish).

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 18:06

deb wrote:I'd love to see definitions, with examples, for the terms:

synonym
junior synonym

Sorry, I can't submit these myself; too afraid of getting it wrong.

Deborah

Synonym: A scientific name submitted after the currently accepted one; or an older name that has subsequently been replaced [for example when a species is moved from one genus to another].

Junior Synonym: The newer of two synonyms.

Senior Synonym: The older of two synonyms.

I'm sure both Marc and Silurus will have further comments on this one, but the above is something to start with [perhaps]?

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:35

MatsP wrote:Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin.

Hi Mats,
Why don't you get rid of the double negative? Make it:
Many catfish genera have an adipose fin.
Imo this is much more clear.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:53

Just wanted to give all "glossateers" (esp. Amanda and Mats & HH too) a big

for all the effort going in here. It really is a great effort.

Keep 'em coming - I have a 3 day "window" tomorrow and the weekend to work on the site 12 hours a day. It's what I call fun.

So, I will work more on the glossary technical side too.

Well done all!

Jools

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 23 Mar 2006, 21:53

Amanda, Mats, and Marc -

Before the final version of the definition of adipose is entered, please look at this:

In Corydoras Catfish by Derek Lambourne, the adipose fin is described as consisting of a spiny projection with a membrane attached.

An illustration clearly shows the structure of the adipose, or second dorsal, spine.

Perhaps we need to incorporate some of this into the PC definition? I have more details if you need them.

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 23 Mar 2006, 21:54

I love the word "potamodromous!" I think it sounds good off the tongue. It's part of Shane's latest list. "Freshwater fish who migrate." Am I leaving anything out of the definition?

I came up with this last night:
Detritus: Also called mulm. Uneaten food, dead plant matter and faeces which accumulates at the bottom of a fish tank. Detritus is full of nutrients and promotes the growth of unwanted algae.

Anyone want to try:
Genital Papilla?

Adipose Fin: In (2) sources (Audubon & Peterson) it's listed as a "small fleshy fin without rays." The third source(Brian Coad's Dictionary) is identical to this with a disclaimer: "Rarely a hard ray or a few soft rays may be developed in the adipose fin of certain catfishes." Would this be Corydoras?

I think the following words can go in:
Adipose: Fatty.
Rostrum: Snout.
Reticulate: Forming a mesh-like pattern(this was almost identical in many other glossaries)
Ray: A rod-like support structure for the fin.
Spine: A hard ray.

Silurus, would it be appropriate to have a definition for mouth orientation, and then list them. Or, have each term be a distinct definition. We might have two words that are the same. Jools, can I do this?

Deb, welcome. Mistakes are part of the learning process. I make a lot of them daily. I'm not an Icthyologist nor an English teacher. If there's a word that you don't understand, please let us know. If you would like to take a try, feel free, too.

Amanda

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 23 Mar 2006, 23:09

Thanks, Amanda! See my note, just above, about the adipose fin.

How about this word:

rugose - having many wrinkles, folds, or ridges. Example: Trachycorystes trachycorystes is known for its rugose cranial shield.

Deborah