Are these acceptable for a discus setup?

gex18 · Post by **gex18** » 02 Mar 2006, 17:02

I am looking at adding 3 x L183 ANCISTRUS DOLICHOPTERUS to the below setup, are they a suitable replacment for standard bristlenose plecs (i.e. eat algae suit discus setupps ect) in terms of tempermant, temp reuirments etc
I have a 400 litre discus setup with the following stock;

8 x 6" discus
30 cardinal tetras
3 x corydoras julii
3 x apisto agassizi
2 x ram cichlids

Filtration

Eheim 2018 pro2 external filter
Eheim Pro 1 2329 wet/ dry external filter
TMC Vecton UVC sterilzor

2 x 10 gallon water changes with ro water a week

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 02 Mar 2006, 17:25

The water change regime sounds a bit on the low side, but otherwise I'd say that's an excellent combination. Beware tho' that some people seem to have trouble getting their L183 acclimatised to their tanks - I'd stick it in a smaller tank and observe it eating before it goes in the big tank.

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Mats

gex18 · Post by **gex18** » 02 Mar 2006, 21:22

Thanks for the prompt reply! Do you consider this stocking level to be acceptable? I will be increasing the water changes to 2 x 15 gallons per week of RO water - again is this acceptable or would you consider increasing them even more?

regards

Anthony

George · Post by **George** » 02 Mar 2006, 21:49

Just RO water? No tap water mix or minerals added? I have heard some folks do this but it has to starve the tank for minerals unless the RO unit isn't terribly efficient.

George

gex18 · Post by **gex18** » 02 Mar 2006, 21:53

Ive never added tap water as it is hard and unfiltered - only ro is my means of filtration - if i was to add tap water (dechlorinated of course) - how much wuld you reccomend adding (to say a 5 gallon drum)?

Cheers

Anthony

George · Post by **George** » 03 Mar 2006, 03:19

I have been playing at keeping fish for forty five plus years and have seen all kinds of things that work for people and eventually do not. As I posted, some folks do this (use only RO) but fish and plants do need minerals. If you have been doing this for a long time and it works, by all means keep on keepin' on. If this is something you just started be aware that RO water (especially if your RO unit is working well) robs that water of all minerals. There are products on the market to replace the "good" minerals. It is my opinion that if all you ever use is RO water that it will eventually cause problems with your tank.

Sounds like a nice tank to me.

George

Post by **Barbie** » 03 Mar 2006, 08:06

Not to mention that only RO unit is a recipe for a tank that is unable to maintain a stable pH and it will eventually crash and kill the fish. Definitely not a good idea! The fact that your tap water is unfiltered does not mean it would be unsuitable for adding to your RO water to replace the missing buffering components. You'll want to add enough tap water that it brings your kH up above 2 degrees, IMO.

Barbie

gex18 · Post by **gex18** » 03 Mar 2006, 08:49

Well thanks for the help guys - actualy my pH is far from stable - stays at around 5 before a water change and shoots up to around 6.5 - 7 after a water change - just how much tap water should i add then? Also what additives do you guys use for the RO water (i have API electro right?!)? Lastly i thought tap water contained heavy metals and these build up over time and are detrimental to discus?

Cheers

Anthony

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Mar 2006, 09:31

The contents of heavy metals in your tap-water is dependant on many factors - but it's unlikely to be so high that you get any noticable problems in the lifetime of the fish - unless you have a private well next to the slag-heap of a lead-mine of course - but then I wouldn't recommend drinking that water, or using it to water your plants with...

If you mix something like 20-80 to 40-60 of tap-water/RO water, you'll get a nice mix of some minerals but not so much that it makes the water hard. You should use hardness to define how much tap and RO water you need. Best is really conductivity, you should aim for at least 100 uS/cm (microsiemens per centimeter). Anything much less than this is unstable.

Obviously, if you have some unwanted chemicals in the incoming water, you'll end up with 20% or 40% of them in the water you're supplying. Since these are "safe for human" levels, lowering the level by 80 or 60% should make them very safe.

Of course, if you have lead-pipes going into your house, you probably should consider getting them replaced with copper ones, particularly if you have soft water.

Big variations in pH will be at least as detrimental to the fish as any compounds in the water that you can add - again assuming you're supplied by a local water-board, rather than a private well.

There are rules about water content, and you can get reports from your water board that tells you what the water is like when it goes to your house, including it's current heavy metal content. Here is the ones for Wales (because that's the one I had a link to for some unknown reason). Also valuable information is on http://www.dwi.co.uk - drinking water institute. Particularly this page may be of interest: http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumer/wq04info01.shtm

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Mats

Owch · Post by **Owch** » 03 Mar 2006, 15:15

If you have multi stage RO filtration, where the incoming water is screened through a sediment filter then a carbon filter before it gets to the RO membrane, you can use the waste stream from the RO unit to recoupe the minerals you need as this will be heavy metal and chlorine treated. Check with your RO filter supplier.

As for your filtration, Id use the 2028 OR the 2329 not both. I have a Juwel Rio 400 (~360 lts water). The tank has 10 Discus, 25 glowlight tetras, 15 cardinal tetras, 1 pecoltia, 1 gibby, 15 baby bristle nose plecs + 20 corys.

I change between 30 - 60 litres a day, but just to keep the nitrates below or near to 5ppm, NH3/3 and NO2 are always zero ppm. My tap water is very soft (kH and gH less than 1) so I have to buffer my water with NaHCO3 to keep the kH up at 60ppm. I also use CaSO4, MgSO4 to bring the gH up and give the younger fish the building blocks for bones.

I also feed heavily, hence the frequent water changes.

Hope that helps

Tom

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Mar 2006, 15:26

One other thought on the "buildup of metals". Most of the lead and other heavy metals you find in the tap-water (or any other water solution) would be inorganic compounds. Although these are no good for organisms, they are noticably (like 1000x) less harmfull than organic lead compounds, like those coming out of an engine from a leaded petrol.

Inorganic lead (as with other heavy metals) is not generally taken up by organisms, but organic compounds are.

My main reason for using a RO unit would be that it creates soft water. The "harmful" stuff in the tap-water isn't enough to make me spend hundreds of pounds to set up a RO unit. Perhaps removal of nitrate would also be a point tho', as lately the tap-water seem to have quite high levels of nitrate.

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Mats