ShortBody Paroon Shark

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 31 Jul 2004, 19:43

I am interested in a Short Body Paroon. I saw one the other day and it about took m breath away. I have never seen a fish so strange yet so cool...
Anyways, anybody here kept them? Do you have any info?
Also, anybody have any good ideas where I could get one and how much I should expect to pay?

Post by **Silurus** » 31 Jul 2004, 19:47

Anyways, anybody here kept them? Do you have any info?

Most of the info you need is in here.

Also, anybody have any good ideas where I could get one and how much I should expect to pay?

Based on the location you entered in your profile, you're not going to get an answer to this question. Please amend your profile accordingly.

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 31 Jul 2004, 19:52

Silurus wrote:
Anyways, anybody here kept them? Do you have any info?
Most of the info you need is in here.

Also, anybody have any good ideas where I could get one and how much I should expect to pay?
Based on the location you entered in your profile, you're not going to get an answer to this question. Please amend your profile accordingly.

Sorry but I have problems with posting where I live on the internet. I kinda meant like a place i.e. Rare-exotic-fish.com that would carry them.

And that link didn't help as much as I would have liked, basically all it said was "Don't keep them, if you do it will die young. Also, you shouldn't keep them. And tell other people not to keep them", I'm looking for somebody with real experience keeping these fish.

Post by **Silurus** » 31 Jul 2004, 19:57

I kinda meant like a place i.e. Rare-exotic-fish.com that would carry them.

At least state what continent you are on (or do you also have a problem with that?) . Internet stores are physically based on all continents, except Antarctica.
Are you saying that you are prepared to buy your fish from another continent and have it shipped all the away to where you live?

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 31 Jul 2004, 20:05

Happy?

Antti · Post by **Antti** » 31 Jul 2004, 23:04

"It's commercially farmed" How?

Edit: do they actually breed them or collect juveniles and grow them?

Antti

Post by **medaka** » 31 Jul 2004, 23:04

hi.
i looked after a few of these in my time, that a friend of mine had in a
8ft x 3ft x 3ft
they tended to get stressed out very easily when disturbed and rocketed around the tank and ended up hitting the glass quite hard and the usual result was that the eyes clouded over. they either died shortly after or took a long time to recover,,

i would advise any one
"do not " purchase these they are best kept in the rivers they inhabit naturally.
the guy whose fish they were said that most shops can not keep them alive and that 90%
imported died within a week or too,,and the ones he had he'd gotten from people that had small tanks and couldnt cope with their demands.

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 01 Aug 2004, 04:38

He had a short body? They can't dart like full body because of their deformity.
The man who I found I know very well and he has these all the time, he keeps them alive too.

Graeme · Post by **Graeme** » 01 Aug 2004, 06:54

Now your only encouraging people to start keeping deformed fish by receiving these from him!

Graeme.

catfishbiotope · Post by **catfishbiotope** » 01 Aug 2004, 22:37

So you've posted on here to ask for advice...and now that its been given, you're saying its wrong? Why ask in the first place? This site has stong feelings about big fish in small tanks.
The Catfish Of The Month article you read is based on culminative experience.

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 01 Aug 2004, 23:09

Personally I just think that the atmosphere at this site is very.... different. I can't post a thing about a big catfish without being told not to keep it, even if I had like a 50x50x10 you'd tell me I couldn't keep it. Thats the atmosphere here, I know that now.

And culminative experience? You read it. It says basically : in the wild they do this, in the wild they do that, don't keep them, tell everybody you know not to keep them. I don't see anything about what to feed them in captivity, how big they really do grow, what size tank, nothing. There can't be much experience in that because it sure doesn't help me.

jurassic_pork · Post by **jurassic_pork** » 02 Aug 2004, 11:02

Does'nt the lack of info on tank size,feeding etc etc tell you anything ? Paroon sharks are not fish that should be kept in captivity,Even sold in the shops IMO and if people would'nt buy them im sure it would make LFS leave these fish where they are,I know many people who admire large fish and would love to keep them but admire them enough to leave them where they belong!

If you think you will have problems keeping any fish......Please leave them alone or at least do your research on the fish and listen and believe what you learn

z rock · Post by **z rock** » 02 Aug 2004, 22:18

Seemed like a very informative article to me.Figuring out what to feed it shouldn't be to hard.Just go down to the pound and get a couple dogs now and then.Be sure and kill the dog plenty ahead of time so it has time to bloat up and get kinda stinky.Oh,it said they are more comfortable in groups,so you might want to get 4-5.We wouldn't want it to get lonely!

250-300 cm what is that? About 10-12 feet?They are a food fish,like a cow! I guess you could grow one out in as large a tank as can be afforded and when you can't take it anymore you'll have a nice supply of catfish steaks.

It did mention the tank size,it said not even recommended for the largest of public aquaria.That means you would need to have a swimming pool in your back yard.In Illinois it will need a massive heater!

The delema is not trying to figure out what it will eat,but keeping it from eating it's owner out of house and home.

Post by **medaka** » 03 Aug 2004, 00:31

i have taken care of most large tropical fish the largest being a three foot phractocephalus
hemiiolopterus also 2 x 2ft pseudodoras niger to name a couple , all were lucky enough to be
rehoused in large public aquaria. i was sad to see the nigers go i had got attached to them but i knew they were going to an aquarim that was 10times bigger than the one we housed them in as i stated our largest tank was 8ft x 3ft x3ft .
it would be interesting to discover what size tank you would keep them in . what type of filtration. and feeding and maintenance rejime you are going to put in place in order not to fall foul of animal cruelty laws, we also had a plastic vat measuring 6ft x 4 ft x 3ft.
please reconsider your stance, leave big fish in the rivers that they inhabit naturally.
if you are after looking after large fish that are nice to look at try the larger loricads
similar to say pseudocanthicus leopardus. but remember. all fish no matter of what type has to have their particular needs met.
also a word of free advice myself apart the people who have replied with good advise to your questions are very knowledgeable please heed them. they in all honesty know more than your lfs owner and most normal books

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 04 Aug 2004, 23:56

z rock wrote:Seemed like a very informative article to me.Figuring out what to feed it shouldn't be to hard.Just go down to the pound and get a couple dogs now and then.Be sure and kill the dog plenty ahead of time so it has time to bloat up and get kinda stinky.Oh,it said they are more comfortable in groups,so you might want to get 4-5.We wouldn't want it to get lonely!

250-300 cm what is that? About 10-12 feet?They are a food fish,like a cow! I guess you could grow one out in as large a tank as can be afforded and when you can't take it anymore you'll have a nice supply of catfish steaks.

It did mention the tank size,it said not even recommended for the largest of public aquaria.That means you would need to have a swimming pool in your back yard.In Illinois it will need a massive heater!

The delema is not trying to figure out what it will eat,but keeping it from eating it's owner out of house and home.

To be honest, the largest Paroon I have ever seen even wild-caught was about 5.5 feet. I'd LOVE to see a 10ft paroon. But, shortbody paroons are only 40-55% as long as a regular paroon. So even with the largest wild caught paroon I've ever seen divided by half is like 2.7 feet. That was the biggest out of about 100 paroons i've seen. They most average about 3-4 feet. Thats about 1.5-2 feet for shortbody's. I could house a fish that size with ease.
It says they're not suited for even the largest of public aquaria, the person who wrote that article, had they ever kept one? i personally think this whole site is based on common knowledge. I myself could have written that same article using information I know off the top of my head. Shame...

catfishbiotope · Post by **catfishbiotope** » 06 Aug 2004, 04:29

Interesting that not one of your 6 posts in this thread mentions what size tank YOU plan on keeping this (supposed) 1.5-2ft deformed, migratory, schooling catfish in.

i personally think this whole site is based on common knowledge.

Easily the dumbest, most ill-informed thing I have ever heard.
How many Ichthyology or biological degrees do you have?
How many species have you classified?
Are you a Fisheries Manager, research scientest or Zoologist?

Are you seriously suggesting that you are more knowledgeable then world renowned catfish experts?

...and if you could write that SAME article off the top of your head (using your incredible database of knowledge) then aren't you simply agreeing that the information in the article IS factual? These fish are too large for captivity. And a "shortbody" is on par with the Blood Parrot and Flowerhorn, pointless genetic manipulation that shouldn't exist.

Sharkman · Post by **Sharkman** » 06 Aug 2004, 04:43

You obviously have MANY degrees in biology. Good job. Too bad that the SB Paroon is not genetically manipulated, but is born that way stupid. Same reason Jaguars can be born black and people can be genetically obese.

And dude, the fish is NOT TOO BIG FOR EVEN PUBLIC AQUARIA! I have seen these fish in real life and they mature at much smaller sizes than the fishbase listed 300 cm which I still say is innacurate. I have never seen a paroon shark over 5 feet. NEVER. You show me one, and I will lay down and shut up. Seriously though, you guys here seem to take your info right from fishbase. Just because fishbase says 300cm doesn't mean thats how big they get! For example, the record Longnose gar ever caught was 267 pounds. The mean is 5-10 pounds. Just because one was caught that big doesn't mean that I should expect every longnose gar to be 5 feet long and weigh 267 pounds. You just don't get it.

And FYI the tank is a 5ft x 7ft x 4ft stock tank, more like a pond.

catfishbiotope · Post by **catfishbiotope** » 06 Aug 2004, 15:21

Actually I do have a biological-based degree.
But, unlike you, I respect the experts that spend their time to make sites like this the incredible wealth of information they are.

..."much smaller" is still too big for captivity. Is your' stock pond big enough to accomodate a school of these fish? Didn't think so. And why would anyone want to keep a migratory animal in captivity?

The "short body", "balloon" form is artificially created.

These fish are also endangered.

http://ecos.fws.gov/species_profile/Spe ... pcode=E00L

Stevetd · Post by **Stevetd** » 11 Aug 2004, 11:58

Sharkman

I have read the above posts and did agree with the GOOD advice the others all gave you.
However, I didn't realise that your tank was as big as 7ft x 5ft x 4ft!
Gosh, that closely replicates the hundreds/thousands miles these migratory fish will swim.
Well done.

Steve

SorubimLima · Post by **SorubimLima** » 11 Feb 2006, 15:49

Sharkman, I'm only a kid but I'm pretty sure that even some genetically different animals can get the same size or bigger of their normal counterparts. I have no idea about how to create flowerhorns, but say if you took a jack dempsey and a texas cichlid, and mixed them into a flowerhorn, it would be bigger than any dempsey. You mentioned black panthers, but they also get to the same size as the real panther. If you are so hooked on paroons, why don't you get a monster tank or pond to house them in? Say maybe, 20x10x10? I believe that may be big enough for a shoal of possibly 4. Yes, the longnose gars usually stay at a somewhat manageable 3 feet, but if one is caught that big, won't there be others? Just some weird food for thought, SorubimLima

aquaholic · Post by **aquaholic** » 15 Feb 2006, 15:09

There does seem to be a bit of hostility towards those keeping large fish or hormone induced breeding here & I am not even going to mention the hydrid word. While the moderators of this forum show sensible constraint, I have noticed the same negative sentiments expressed by Sharkman in many places or topics.

Those which do not listen to good advice are not going to change their views over an internet forum war no matter how hostile. However, all those extremely interesting and passionate fishkeepers which are dedicated enough to provide large enough tanks, pools or ponds will keep quiet or simply go elsewhere. What a waste of invaluable experience and squandrous use of a specialist forum.

My 2.2 cents.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 15 Feb 2006, 15:50

This whole discussion is quite useless. The post by Sharkman (Aug 2004) was actually his last post on PC.
The problem is that someone has been digging into these oldies and bringing up things that should be regarded as being dealt with.
So Adrian, if you read this, do the same as you did with several other old threads that surfaced lately: lock it.

CEfire · Post by **CEfire** » 15 Feb 2006, 16:17

I don't want to contribute to this problem, but Sorbiumlima please read the last posting date and decide if the topic is still relevant. If it is, you could probably just start a new thread on a similar subject that interests you

I bet this sharkguy doesnt even post here anymore...

aquaholic · Post by **aquaholic** » 16 Feb 2006, 09:41

My point exactly. I wonder how many others have gone, never to return? Sharkman came here looking for some advice.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 16 Feb 2006, 17:44

Now you've gone and done it! You've made me re-read the entire thread!

aquaholic wrote:

Sharkman came here looking for some advice.

And honest, truthful, experienced advice was given. The advice was simple: "don't"

And... ...yet again as in so many other similarly threads the advice was dismissed and rejected by Sharkman.

Why are you defending this?

aquaholic · Post by **aquaholic** » 17 Feb 2006, 02:13

Paul,
I am defending this because yet another potential forum member has gone. No way of telling how many others who have never even posted have also disapperaed.

I am defending this because this forum has the potential to be so much more interesting to large cat keepers. There so many better ways to educate than saying DON'T. I think a community of fishkeepers who have the time, energy, money and passion for keeping specialist fish like these should be actively sought, encouraged and learnt from.

I am defending this because I disagree with a 100% absolute inflexible DON'T keep large cats because I know there ARE people with the resources who can.

I am defending this because I disagree this is how a forum (any forum) should work.

I am not trying to start a flame war but pointing out something which if you can't see then there is probably no point discussing.

I even disagree with your term "defendng" as I am posing MY impressions & observations.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 17 Feb 2006, 13:38

Aquaholic wrote:

I am defending this because I disagree with a 100% absolute inflexible DON'T keep large cats because I know there ARE people with the resources who can.

Re-read the big-cats sticky. The thing that is offensive to us about these big cats is their prevalence in the trade. In the U.S. you can go into ANY large pet store and find Red-tail catfish babies for $15 U.S. and Iridescent Sharks for $1.99. Available by the hundreds and by the thousands respectively.

In this, it is our DUTY to inform potential keeper of these fish of the enormous responsability they are undertaking because the $6 an hour kid behind the counter certainly isn't.

In the "sticky" Shane mentions that in over 100 years of combined fishkeeping experience among the moderators that all of us combined know of only one; one single person that actually invested in an appropriately sized aquarium for these fish (two appropriately sized aquariums to be more precise ~20K and est. over 35K gallons respectively). With all the many tens of thousands of individuals this group of moderators know at those odds, we will continue our advice of "don't".

If you have the means, more power to you.

If you have the dedication, all the better.

If you (or Sharkman, or someone else, etc., etc.) happen to be that one in ten thousand individuals that will actually follow through with appropriate care for these fish, then I and the rest of the moderator staff here will applaud you. But you'll have to wait a bit before we do so as these fish can live for 30 years or more .

Lastly, if you do happen to have all the characteristics above, for this topic anyway PC might not be the appropriate forum for you. There are hundreds of forums out there for those that want to attempt to keep these impressive fish. In fact, the existence of such groups seem to have started and encouraged the development of ever larger aquaria and more advanced construction methods. This is good, but will it be sustained? I for one am waiting to see. I for one would love to have a 1000+ gallon set-up in my basement. Ironically, this wouldn't be even close to big enough for these fish.

We as moderators here are going to play the odds that are hugely in our favor and continue with "don't".

aquaholic · Post by **aquaholic** » 18 Feb 2006, 02:39

Paul,
Thank you for your reasonable post. I think if more people took this reasonable approach here this issue wouldn't be an issue. I have read the big cat sticky and have emailed Shane in the past.

While I agree the majority of people buy these cute little babies in ignorance, those which come here are the ones concerned enough to try to do the right thing. Getting blasted is not very productive or constructive. There must also be a group of people who genuinely like these big fish for what they are since not every fishkeeper will buy a fish out of total ignorance. I myself love these big fish and am disappointed by the lack of enthusiasm and sharing of knowledge on these types of fish.

I didn't expect any solutions, just wanted to let you know my observations. If your happy actively discouraging large cats from being kept then so be it. I don't post here very often anyway.

I am also surprised by your stats on large tank owners. Obviously I have large enough tanks and ponds and pools and know quite a few others similar but didn't think we were that unusual. I will share my love for big cats elsewhere but do thank you for yourt replies and will try to visit here occasionally.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 20 Feb 2006, 01:08

Well I had no intention of driving you away. Your insights as to the practical reality of keeping these giant catfishes would be invaluable to this or any other site.

I agree that some members got pretty nasty in the posts above. My response was in all honesty to let it slide as Sharkman had already proven he was unwilling to consider the advice above, thereby wasting everyone's time.

Large fish well kept are absolutely stunning to behold, but unfortunately that's far too much of a rarity in this hobby.

ShortBody Paroon Shark

ShortBody Paroon Shark

Re: ShortBody Paroon Shark

Re: ShortBody Paroon Shark

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