Sudden death of L 264 group

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 12 Feb 2006, 19:09

I have woken up this morning to find 4 of my group of five adult L 264 dead or dying and through the day I have lost them, what makes it stranger is that the last one in the group is looking fine. They share a tank with some Giardinus and mosquito fish and they were is perfect condition. They appear to be bloated but i have not changed anything in my routine, they are in a 200 litre tank which is heavily planted and all water quality readings are perfect. All other fish in the tank are perfect even the day old babies ofthe livebearers. They have been in the tanks for about a year and nothing has changed. I am not only gutted but really confused. Has anyone else ever seen anything like this. The ph is 7.1, zero ammonia, zero nitrite and very low nitrate due to regular water changes and masses of plants..... I have kept fish for 20 years and never seen anything like this.??? help please

jellyfish · Post by **jellyfish** » 12 Feb 2006, 19:46

Hi Eupterus
Do you have any way to monitor the oxygen level of your aquarium? Are the giardinus and mosquito fish mostly surface dwellers? If the oxygen level dropped during the night because of all the plants, it might explain why they survived and the bottom dwelling plecos didn't make it. Aside from that, I'm as stumped as you!

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 12 Feb 2006, 20:09

I wish it were that easy, although i cant check disolved oxygen as simply as the other tests, I have a few cory's and they are fine and none of the livebearers are gasping at the surface. I am stumped, My degree was parasitology and there are no signs of parasiteseither internally or externally, It sound stupid but the fish are in perfect condition in every way except for the fact that they are dead, The last in the group is looking ok, as if nothing has happened. I have no idea

Post by **Barbie** » 12 Feb 2006, 22:11

Have you added any new fish recently that could have potentially carried disease? Or even plants?

Barbie

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 13 Feb 2006, 05:19

Hello, and sorry about the loss,

I believe I know what the problem is, but it's not going to sound really scientific. I bought a box of L264, although I've seen it in other species, about 2 years ago. All the fish did fine, grew to full adult size (they were already good size when I got them) in 3-4 months, and had even started spawning regularly. They were maintained in a warm water central system with a dozen other species, and all were in exceptional condition and health.

Likewise, I woke up one morning to check the fish and found that a couple were fatter than normal. I just assumed that they were ripe, or had gotten more than their share of the shrimp I had fed the night before. As the day progressed, their stomachs lost the bright, clean grey color and became increasingly dark. By the next morning, all were afflicted and most dead.

I did an autopsy and realized that their intestines had became blocked and were filled with a dark brown fluid. The result, which I had seen before and knew all to well about, was that I had over-fed the tank with high protein foods and part of it had gone bad. The bacterial growth inside the intestine had killed my breeders.

It's a sad story, but one that can be learned from.

Larry Vires

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 13 Feb 2006, 10:09

Thanks for the replies, I think you are probably right about the feeding, I havent actually changed the feeding regime all the time but all the symptons are exactly as you described. It would also explain why the one that survived is actually the smallest and therefore the least able to compete for the food. I always feed my Lorricariae tanks befor ethe light sog out do it is difficult to monitor who is eating what. As you said, A lesson learnt. I feel a little stupid to be honest. In 20 years I have never seen a fish die of lack of food and yet I insist on keeping them well fed.. The shame is that they were as you said ripe with eggs and the group of 4 females and a male is now a male.....I live and learn

Thanks again

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Feb 2006, 10:58

I would like to add that overfeeding may be part of the problem, but lack of fibre is most likely another big part. If you add some vegetables to the diet, they (just like humans) get more fibre, which keeps the stomach in order.

--
Mats

barak · Post by **barak** » 13 Feb 2006, 11:27

sory for your lost

, but a very good leson for all.
thank you for sharing

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 13 Feb 2006, 12:56

I agree whole heartedly with matsp although i have to add in this case the diet is extremely varied, they get courgette ( zuchini ) twice weekly and cucumber on one other day, I also feed blood worm and muscle on the other days along with tabimin. That was one of the reasons this surprised me so much. Thanks for all your help

Kostas · Post by **Kostas** » 13 Feb 2006, 16:54

Hi,
I too have lost one L240 and one L241 with the same symptoms(bloated smomach,heavy breathing) but at different times(for details see my post).I too hadnt changed anything when i lost them but the second one i lost wasnt the one getting most of the food.In fact he was the one getting the less food of all so i dont think that it has to do only with the quantity of food.

JarredDarque · Post by **JarredDarque** » 14 Feb 2006, 10:12

I know it looks like the food thing, and I am not disagreeing, but you mentioned to the low-oxygen lvl possibility, that the cories where fine, cories can breathe out of the air for a period, and I know mine routinely, (every few hours) dart tohe top then back to their regular vacuming of the bottom of my tanks...the cories in all the tanks I have them in do this

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Feb 2006, 10:44

Like cories, most Pleco's can take in air to breathe if there's lack of it in the tank, so I doubt that this is the cause of death.

--
Mats