starting a river tank, need input

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 17 Jan 2006, 20:03

I have plans to start a river tank w/ a S.A. biotope theme. I want to have a couple smaller species of plecos (ex. L204)tolerant of fast moving water. Maybe some exodon tetras.

The tank is 45 gal - 48" long, 12" high, 18" wide.

I have 80lbs of eco complete.

I have driftwood, large stones, and my plant selections include (so far) jungle vals. It will be sparsely planted but enough low lying cover for the fish to rest if needed.

my filtration would consist of, at one end, an ac 500. Under that, inside the tank, I'd put two small powerheads. Then possibly have a canister returning the flow from the other end back to a spray bar underneath the ac500. I want the flow to be from one end to the other and only to come back again through the canister creating a steady uni-directional current.

I've been researching other's designs and wanted some input on the undergravel flow systems that I've seen. Is it totally necessary? I'll be useing the eco complete which is fairly fine grained. I'd assume this would clog any undergravel systems I'd setup.

Please, comment.

-chad

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 17 Jan 2006, 22:15

Do a search as there are many examples that people have posted about river tank set ups and most have detailed photos.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8819

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9408

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9957

http://www.loaches.com/river_tank.html

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 18 Jan 2006, 15:14

Thanks for taking the time to find and post the links. I've studied those already and wanted more input on my specific ideas. Do you think there are any pro's/cons for anything I've asked about in my above post. If anyone (those who'd know) wants to take the time to comment on my ideas, I would appreciate it.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2006, 15:46

Ok, I have no experience with river tanks - but as others on this forum knows, inexperience doesn't stop me from commenting...

You talk about undergravel filtration. I don't know where you had the idea from to say that you need to use undergravel filtration on a river-tank. Most designs I've seen use pipes under the gravel, which just "return" the water to the other end of the tank, they serve no purpose as filtration. If you don't have some sort of "return" system, you'll create a circular flow in the tank, rather than a situation where the water flows from one end to the other [obviosuly, there'll still be a lot of turbulence].

Using an external canister filter that has the intake one end and outlet at the other end is fine filtration solution for this sort of setup, but you'll need to also run your powerheads off an intake at the opposite end of the tank, or you will not get a very good "river" effect.

--
Mats

Phathead6669 · Post by **Phathead6669** » 18 Jan 2006, 17:22

I've been researching other's designs and wanted some input on the undergravel flow systems that I've seen. Is it totally necessary? I'll be useing the eco complete which is fairly fine grained. I'd assume this would clog any undergravel systems I'd setup.

My friend's dad covers his undergravel plates with screens(such as the ones on a window/patio door) which allows the undergravel filter work properly without sucking sand through out the system. I'm not sure if eco complete is finer than sand as I have never seen it before.

Owch · Post by **Owch** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:37

If your power heads give 1000 litres per hour output, then you have to take 1000 litres away from the other end of the tank, opposite the power heads.

The External will not do this as that itself if providing its own flow (say 500l/h), and is designed to do so.

If the powerheads take water from the same end that they are placed then the water will need replacing, and, as MatsP says, will create turbulence in the tank, wit hwate coming back along the sides of the tank.

The idea of having the powerheads on a return via PVC pipes is to create a loop, under the gravel or sand, the prevent the turbulence.

Im in the process of setting up my river tank properly (it's a little bodged at the moment, but my L333's have still spawned in it

). Ill post a step by step of the set up from empty stripped down tank to up and running full of fish (well 6 adult L333's, a few tetras and some baby L333's and BN's)

Good luck

Tom

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:52

Thanks, my ideas are flawed and will not work properly.

I understand now that the current should be parallel to the length of the tank and the return flow rate should be directly related to the current. I can't do that w/ just a HOB filter and pumps, unless they were in that loop. Otherwize there would be a swirling effect. That will require the pumps/filters be connected to the returns. This all makes so much sense. I appreciate all those who helped me.

Back to square one.

Eco Complete is a clay based gravel used for planted tanks. It's granular size is variable, from fine sand sized grains to 3-5 mm sized grains. It resembles cookie crumbles.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jan 2006, 18:58

My much more simple approach to the river tank is to employ two powerful powerheads at water surface level. The water would rush along the surface (picking up oxygen), then hit the other end of the tank, then flow along the bottom back to the intakes.

By the way, of the plecs i've kept, L204 seem to be the least bothered about current. They are quite happy doing their thing in the still parts of my tank.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 18 Jan 2006, 19:59

Jungle Val. is a good one for river tanks. I have to make sure to keep up with it, though. It has a tendency to take over the tank. But, it looks very pretty when the powerhead current hits it.

Amanda

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Jan 2006, 20:05

racoll wrote:My much more simple approach to the river tank is to employ two powerful powerheads at water surface level. The water would rush along the surface (picking up oxygen), then hit the other end of the tank, then flow along the bottom back to the intakes.

By the way, of the plecs i've kept, L204 seem to be the least bothered about current. They are quite happy doing their thing in the still parts of my tank.

This is a good "simple" river setup. It's not quite as "genuine" as one where most of the water flows in one direction, but from the fish's perspective, it probably doesn't matter much. In nature, in a rocky type of environment, the stream/river would have some eddies or swirls in places, and the water may well run in the opposite directions only a few inches apart.

--
Mats

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 18 Jan 2006, 20:31

As I have been and will continue to be doing much research into this, I'd like to get some suggestions for plecos I could keep successfully in this tank from those who have experience w/ them. I'm looking for wood eaters, plant safe and fast current tolerant fish. I know it's a far cry to get plant safe plecos. Not looking for anything that is primarily a carnivorous fish.

racoll wrote: By the way, of the plecs i've kept, L204 seem to be the least bothered about current. They are quite happy doing their thing in the still parts of my tank.

I have a pending order to get one of these (L204). I also have on that order the following possibilies:

L201, L014, L200, L034, L239, L199, L031. Keep in mind I know not all of these will be kept in this tank. I plan on keeping about 5 in here for life.

Thanks again and please excuse me if i seem to be too bothersome and ignorant w/ any of my questions.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 18 Jan 2006, 21:47

It's not quite as "genuine" as one where most of the water flows in one direction

Ah but it does where it matters!

It flows along the bottom in one direction giving the same effect as a much more complicated set-up.

All the tetras can sit in the current at the top and face the other direction.

This is the way i've set up my fathers tank. Even with one small powerhead it works.

Be sure to add a big air pump or have the venturis on the powerheads on full to bring fresh air into the system.

I would go with L204. Great looking fish that don't get too big.

I would stick to one species of centre-piece plec, as there is the possibility of breeding, plus i think it would look better.

You could also add a group of Sturisoma, Farlowella or Hemiloricaria for a nice contrast.

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 09 Feb 2006, 20:58

I've been looking into different power heads. do you think a 2 powersweeps would work well? These are the ones w/ the oscillating heads on them that spread the flow out in a horizontal direction.

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 10 Feb 2006, 03:55

Another option is usuaing an external sump.
I have sump below my river tank with a pump pushing water up into the river tank above and 4 x 1 inch holes drilled at water level with bulkheads sending the outflow down into the sump, its totally one directional and gets a good flow going with highly oxygenated water.

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 10 Feb 2006, 05:50

Probably the easiest way to set up a river tank is to use pleco farmer's set up. You can bury all the plumbing under the substrate and hide what you can't bury behind rocks, wood and plants. You could use a canister filter inplace of the hob and still run a large powerhead(I don't think I would use a sweeping power head). If you have any questions, pm me.

Beeman · Post by **Beeman** » 10 Feb 2006, 10:23

I've been trying sand substrate along with a undergravel filter in my newest tank, and so far I've liked it. I've only had it up for about a month so far, and I'll be moving at the end of the month so I'll be able to see how it works on a short term.

So far I have it as the only filter in my aquaium and its doing well, the water is crystal clear, the cories throw up a lot of sand and crud playing around so there is always a few particles in the water, but I haven't seen any waste buildup yet. But its still a new tank.

I used a fiberglass airfilter from home depot, wrapped around PVC thats been made into a square fitting in the bottom of the tank. I wouldn't use the same filter again for the reason that the fibers start to poke up and pulling one just pulls another one out. When I rebuild the system at my new place I'm going to just use a standard undergravel filter plate with a differnt kind of fiberglass to cover it.

I've really liked watching my corrys play around in the sand, they work that top layer pretty well I would say every night they turn over the whole tank.

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 10 Feb 2006, 15:03

thanks guys,

fugly dragon - I have experience w/ sumps, I had one on my 190gal. It did work very well for water quality. I would use one, but unfortunately I wouldn't have anywhere to put it. Also I want something more low mainanance.

white pine - I really like that setup. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9408 < this is the basic setup I may base my design on. I think using an external canister will be a benefit for chemical filtration needs w/ the amount of fish I want to put in. I have a maxi jet powerhead and a AC power head that I can use and see which one works best. Being that the tank is 48" long I'll need something powerful but not too large to take up too much space. I also want to find those cylindrical prefilter pads for cheap so I can replace them if needed.

Beeman - I wont' bring myself to use an UG filter system, especially w/ plants. I dont' want them growing into it. I love using sand in my tanks also. It's great for the fish and aesthetics as well. I hope your tank turns out to work well for you.

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 10 Feb 2006, 17:34

here's what I use for my prefilter...I ussually cut it in half ... so I get two.

http://bigalsonline.com/catalog/product ... ry_id=2637

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 10 Feb 2006, 19:14

I think home depot has those in a two pack for like $5.

I could get a couple triangle sponge filters, flip them over and set them so they'll be low profile in the corners instead of two or three tall pillars sticking up at one end. With a slight modification it may work well.

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 14 Feb 2006, 16:28

Put together a little drawing to depict my idea

It has a couple variations on how to run the plumbing. Ideas please!!!

click here:
http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/inde ... t&id=14458

Heres a photo of the tank:

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 15 Feb 2006, 19:31

another idea:
http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/inde ... t&id=14462

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 15 Feb 2006, 20:05

I don't think I would run it in a loop. I would use one large power head( or pump) and run all the plumbing to the back. You could place the pump in one of the corners and still use a spray bar. look at pleco farmers tanks and just add a larger pump. I would also have an extra sponge or two to swap out midway between water changes... as the sponges will definatly get clogged and slow down the flow.

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » 15 Feb 2006, 20:57

WhitePine wrote:I don't think I would run it in a loop. I would use one large power head( or pump) and run all the plumbing to the back. You could place the pump in one of the corners and still use a spray bar. look at pl*co farmers tanks and just add a larger pump. I would also have an extra sponge or two to swap out midway between water changes... as the sponges will definatly get clogged and slow down the flow.

ok so just suck and push the water from the same end. You're right about the sponges.

heres another diagram:

http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/inde ... t&id=14463

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 16 Feb 2006, 01:29

This is how I would set it up...