need help with cave sizes please

smiffertins · Post by **smiffertins** » 09 Feb 2006, 12:35

I was wondering if you might be able to help me with some cave sizing for my pl*cos? I have:

1- Glyptoperichthys scrophus 2.5"//6.3cm
1- Panaque maccus 1.5"//3.8cm
1- Liposarcus pardalis 2"//5cm
1- ? (looks similar to this one) 4.5"//11.4cm

I was going to use some plastic piping... I have some 3" diameter I thought maybe for the bigger plec and I have some 2" diameter I thought for the other 3 plecs. Do you think these are good sizes of pipes and how long should I cut them? (My friend has tons of extra plastic piping so a different diameter would be easy to get.)Thank you in advance!

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Feb 2006, 13:28

Breeding cave:
Here's a formula: 1.5L x (W + 1.2P) x 1.2H (Length x Width x Height)

L is the length of the fish.
W is the body width
P is the pectoral fin length.
H is the height of the fish with the dorsal fin down.

These are of course estimated measurements. The idea here is that the male should fit quite snuggly in the cave, and be able to hold the female in there.

Note that as the fish grows, the cave will need to be bigger.

Housing caves:
These can be roomier, as this is just a cave for the fish to hide in, not to try to protect a brood of eggs. However, keeping it close to the above size to make it most comfortable for the fish.

There's really no reason why the cave should be any particular material, as long as:
1. It's (relatively) inert - doesn't react with water or release any material that is harmful to the fish.
2. Sinks, or can be weighed down to sink.

I've used slate, stones, terracotta, bamboo and I know of people using plastic, ceramic tiles, hollowed out wood and many other materials. As well as there being manufactured breeding caves for various types of fish that can very well be used for plecos - whether that's what they were intended for or not.

Many plecos will dig it's own cave if you place a flat piece of suitable material on top of the gravel.

--
Mats

smiffertins · Post by **smiffertins** » 09 Feb 2006, 16:03

So they are actually more comfortable in a smaller housing cave than a bigger housing cave?

If I used the breeding cave formula (although I'm not necessarily trying to get them to breed) is it possible that they would breed, seeing as they are not any of the same types of plecs?

Since each plec chooses a specific "home", how much does something like changing the materials of the home or upgrading the size of their home affect them, once they've become comfortable and established there?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Feb 2006, 16:11

The fish is more comfortable in a "tight fit" because it feels more secure that way - there may not be any Piranha's or Pike Cichlids in your tank, but in nature there may well be. So having a cave that doesn't let anything bigger in is a natural way to save/lengthen the fish's life.

Breeding will happen if you have two, of opposite sex, mature enough fish of close enough species to breed - and all other necessary environmental setup is there. For example, I bet there's no way that a would not breed with a or . The ? fish that looks similar to L. pardalis may be another Liposarcus species - or even the SAME species, in which case these fish could possibly breed. But this is unlikely to happen in a home aquarium - they need to be quite big and like to have lots of mud/sand to dig tunnels in before they breed in captivity.

--
Mats

smiffertins · Post by **smiffertins** » 09 Feb 2006, 16:44

Cool, I wouldn't want them to make babies and me be improperly equipped for them.

Any thoughts on the last question?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Feb 2006, 16:47

Ah sorry - missed the last question... [I'm trying to work and write stuff here at the same time - failing on both it seems...].

I've removed caves from tanks, and the fish will find somewhere else to live. Depending on how "brave" and established the fish is in the first place, it may take some time to get them back into a new cave. However, they don't necessarily "recognise" that you've taken one out and replaced it with another one, as long as it's in the same place and looks similar...

--
Mats

smiffertins · Post by **smiffertins** » 10 Feb 2006, 07:14

Nice! Thats good b/c I was thinking of making/getting some caves out of different materials whenever I have the chance.

As far as failing... I don't know about your work but you're doing a pretty damn good job here, I'd say! Thanks for yet again helping me out with all your good advice!!

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 10 Feb 2006, 16:54

One thing about plastic piping, some of it floats and some of it sinks - obviously the former isn't much use, so find out before you buy!

Jools

smiffertins · Post by **smiffertins** » 11 Feb 2006, 13:54

I kinda figured it wouldn't float... I thought maybe I'd use silicone to glue it to something like a rock or maybe a piece of slate? The pipes my friend gave me seem pretty heavy but I haven't tried to sink them water yet. I thought about maybe even attaching some suction cups... I guess I'll have to explore my options.

smiffertins · Post by **smiffertins** » 11 Feb 2006, 13:55

Thanks for the heads up though!!