Tank Racks - a Couple of Questions

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Nov 2005, 20:50

You can have a central filtration system, or you can have individual filters. Most people use individual filtration, and here's a few arguments for/agains using individual filtraiton. Obviously reversing the pros/cons would give arguments for central filtration:

Pros:
-Each tank can have it's own pH, GH & temperature.
-The risk of spreading decease between tanks is very much reduced.
-Individual tanks can be medicated or have other chemical treatment (including plant fertilizer and chemical filtration for example).
-It's much easier to adjust the current for each tank.
-Filter failure will only affect one tank.
-Plumbing becomes much easier.

Cons:
-Cost of filtration system.
-Individual filters need to be cycled

Of course, it's up to you to decide which of these arguments are important to you.

Shops generally have multiple central filters, but some shops just use under-gravel filters on a central airline.

--
Mats

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 27 Nov 2005, 07:23

Even more pics...

The 2 Whiptails spent a day or so in the bamboo pipe while I was building the river tank, amoungst all the banging and thumping and crashing I thought they were hiding but when I checked on them later in the day they had spawned, they have only been with me about 10 days so I figure its a good start.

Photo was taken from under the tank looking up into the cave, and yes the male only has 1 eye, I call him Horatio.

About the same time my 4 Albino Corys spawned, the biggest spawn to date, anyone care to count the dots ???

Since the photo was taken they have hatched and the free swimmers are now spread over 3 tanks growing at a fair rate. I stopped counting at 170 odd, Id say well in excess of 200 of them made it. Might have to have a 5 for $1 sale to get rid of them.

Together with one of the guys at my LFS I came up with this concept for my 'xingu style' river tank.

It has a sump with a laguna 4 pump feeding it and two other 18x18x18 tanks on the rack above it. 3 inputs from the pump into the right hand end of the tank and 4 x 1 inch overflows at left hand end dropping into a channel I cut from 40mm wastepipe. The outflows cant handle the flow rate though, so I have had to cut back the inflows, will have to come up with a better way of handleing the outflow to get the potential flow possible.

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 27 Nov 2005, 07:35

bronzefry wrote:I love the leaf litter. Congrats on the BNs. What a labor of love to get all of that done! How was the plumbing to set up? Anything you didn't expect? Was anything easier than expected?
Amanda

Thanks

Plumbing wasnt to bad, just a question of heating the tubing before working with it, and using lubricant on threads to ensure tight fits, despite the appearnce in the pics its pretty much leak free. Hardest part was finding the 'bulkheads' I eventually found they are called water tank adaptors here, every time I asked in plumbing supply shops for 'bulkheads' they just looked at me like I was demented, eventually found them in a specialist irrigation place for just USD$3 odd each.

If I did it again I would allow more clearance in each bay for plumbing / wireing etc between tanks. I only allowed 1 " at each end of the tank, not enough, would go with at least 2" at each end.

Next step is to find some decent driftwood for my driftwood snag tank, into which goes my royal plecs and maybe a Cochliodon that I have my eye on at the LFS.

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 27 Nov 2005, 08:00

For anyone interested here is a pic of one of the sumps before instalation.

Hole at right is for a low pressure float valve (ball cock), in CHCH they are available from Hortlink (and not anywhere else I could find)

Hole at left is for overflow to waste.

Pump is laguna 4, heaters are 2x 300w (this is my 'xingu rack' want it around 28 - 29c) 2 media baskets will be filled with Eheim Substrat Pro.

Plastic Grids at bottom of filter baskets are just plastic dish drainers cut to fit, not shown is another one that sits in bay at left for filter wool to sit on.

Here is a pic of the 'bulkhead' or overflow components.

At right is an 'Aqua One' Filter strainer with a rubber band added to ensure a tight fit to the 'water tank adaptor' or bulkhead which is beside it. I simply cut off the barbed end then screw the elbow onto the bulkhead, then the barb at left to the elbow and its allready for 1" (25mm) irrigation tubeing to be pushed on.

Kana3 · Post by **Kana3** » 22 Dec 2005, 05:45

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that siphoning into a bucket from the lower tanks was a bit on the slow side.

Something I do when I can't be bothered to hold the siphon is, bung the plastic tube onto the outlet of a submersible powerhead, and just drop it in...

May be a tad easier on the back as well.

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 22 Dec 2005, 10:00

I have a nifty gadget called a sink pump attached to the faucet that allows me to drain all tanks into the sink with out any sucking or anything.

PlecoCrazy · Post by **PlecoCrazy** » 22 Dec 2005, 13:00

I really like the 'Xingu Style' setup. The one problem I see is with that many piled up rocks you are going to get a lot of debris trapped in the crevices of all of those rocks and its not going to be very easy to keep clean. Especially that large pile you have.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Dec 2005, 13:08

PlecoCrazy wrote:I really like the 'Xingu Style' setup. The one problem I see is with that many piled up rocks you are going to get a lot of debris trapped in the crevices of all of those rocks and its not going to be very easy to keep clean. Especially that large pile you have.

This is exactly how a gravel filter works, so as long as there's a bit of water flowing through that area, it's not going to be a problem. It's just a courser gravel filter...

--
Mats

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » 27 Dec 2005, 16:17

Sorry, somehow i posted the same message twice !

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » 27 Dec 2005, 16:18

I have been looking at ideas for a fish hut design and there are some great tank racks and fish hut set ups in this thread and think i will be using Corymans designs a lot.

But one thing i would like to ask, is what do you do for water changes / preheating water for water changes ?

Where i come from in the summer the water out of the tap is not too cold, but in the winter it is very cold.
So i had to set up some storge tanks for my existing tanks to pre heat the water for water changes, but the storage tanks then cuts back on the tanks you have for fish.

In a fish hut 6ft by 10ft with a three tier rack on each side, i will need a lot of water for water changes.
I can only think of using the bottom row of tanks to store / pre heat the water for waterchanges but would lose tanks again ?
If i used a plastic drum out side the hut to store the water in, what would you use to pre heat the water in the plastic drums, a couple of 300W heaters ?
Also are garden containers from a garden centre alright to store water in, or do you need to use food safe grade containers ?

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 02 Jan 2006, 18:57

Well im very luck in that I dont need to treat my water in any way its not chlorine treated. My tanks are all on sumps so when i need to do a water change i drain most of the water from one of the tanks then cut the inflow for that tank back to a trickle so that the sump heaters have a chance to heat the new water as it fills the sump. Works a treat

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 03 Jan 2006, 14:26

AndrewC wrote:In a fish hut 6ft by 10ft with a three tier rack on each side, i will need a lot of water for water changes.
I can only think of using the bottom row of tanks to store / pre heat the water for waterchanges but would lose tanks again ?
If i used a plastic drum out side the hut to store the water in, what would you use to pre heat the water in the plastic drums, a couple of 300W heaters ?
Also are garden containers from a garden centre alright to store water in, or do you need to use food safe grade containers ?

This is interesting to me, as I'll probably have the same problem soon - the house we're in the process of buyins has a brick-built shed that will become my fish-house.

Here's some thoughts - use them for ideas, not as rules.

In your local DIY shop, you should be able to find "roof-tanks" for water. The same type of tanks that you'd have in the attic in your house. Combined with a heater, they'd make good "reservoars" for your water. I think they generally hold 66 gallons, so a couple of those would be sufficient to get you enough water for a reasonable set of tanks. I'd probably connect one to an RO system, and the other to "plain tap".

Heating water outdoors is probably not such a good idea, since it will be much cooler than your fish-room, and thus require a large amount of electricity to heat it.

I would have thought that a garden-centre "water tub" would be suitable for holding water for the tanks without problem, no need for "food-safe". When I moved my tank, I used dustbins from Whickes, the cheapest large water-containers I could find, at about 8 quid for 90 liters, but I would probably spend a bit more on getting something more permanent and sturdy for my fish-room [not quite capable of holding all 90 liters, around 70 or so is more realistic before they become too wobbly].

--
Mats

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » 03 Jan 2006, 20:29

MatsP wrote:Here's some thoughts - use them for ideas, not as rules.

In your local DIY shop, you should be able to find "roof-tanks" for water. The same type of tanks that you'd have in the attic in your house. Combined with a heater, they'd make good "reservoars" for your water. I think they generally hold 66 gallons, so a couple of those would be sufficient to get you enough water for a reasonable set of tanks. I'd probably connect one to an RO system, and the other to "plain tap".

Heating water outdoors is probably not such a good idea, since it will be much cooler than your fish-room, and thus require a large amount of electricity to heat it.

I would have thought that a garden-centre "water tub" would be suitable for holding water for the tanks without problem, no need for "food-safe". When I moved my tank, I used dustbins from Whickes, the cheapest large water-containers I could find, at about 8 quid for 90 liters, but I would probably spend a bit more on getting something more permanent and sturdy for my fish-room [not quite capable of holding all 90 liters, around 70 or so is more realistic before they become too wobbly].
Mats

Thanks Matt
Never thought of a couple of cold water header tanks, and you get a lid with them too.
Was trying to find a large water butt to sit in the corner of the room.

When it's set up, i will suspend a couple of heaters in each header tank for heating the water up.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 Jan 2006, 10:04

AndrewC wrote:Thanks Matt
Never thought of a couple of cold water header tanks, and you get a lid with them too.
Was trying to find a large water butt to sit in the corner of the room.

When it's set up, i will suspend a couple of heaters in each header tank for heating the water up.

Yeah, I was thinking that would be the way to go. Depending on how quickly you need the water to heat up (also, bear in mind whether you still fill up water or not in the new tank), you may not need that much heating. A cooler water change seems to be fine for the fishes, in my experience [within reason, of course].

--
Mats

ac82 · Post by **ac82** » 07 Feb 2006, 21:09

I was wondering whether anyone had any links for where I could get hold of one in the UK? I'm not sure whether any of you have been to Wharf aquatics but I quite fancy one of the massive ones they have on your right as you walk into the tropical fish room!

Cheers

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » 07 Feb 2006, 22:50

If it is header tanks for water storage you are looking for ?
Discounted Heating has Titan, Rectangular Water Storage Tanks of various sizes which are reasonably priced;
http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop ... lkoo.co.uk

The largest one holds around 78 Gallons.

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » 16 Sep 2006, 15:44

FuglyDragon wrote:For anyone interested here is a pic of one of the sumps before instalation.

Hole at right is for a low pressure float valve (ball cock), in CHCH they are available from Hortlink (and not anywhere else I could find)

Hole at left is for overflow to waste.

Pump is laguna 4, heaters are 2x 300w (this is my 'xingu rack' want it around 28 - 29c) 2 media baskets will be filled with Eheim Substrat Pro.

Plastic Grids at bottom of filter baskets are just plastic dish drainers cut to fit, not shown is another one that sits in bay at left for filter wool to sit on.

Mike
I have never worked with sumps before and like your design for a freshwater sump.
Is the sizes in my design below alright, i have added a couple of 1" pieces of glass to the chamber just below the inlet to take some egg crate and hold some filter floss.
I have just gave my lfs the Sump Design and tank sizes/amount to get a price, they will pass it onto the company that makes their tanks.
The tanks will be drilled and have Weirs on the right hand side.
It is just to get the design checked before i speak to the tank makers, incase i have missed something.

Also, how do you work out the size of pump you need for three tanks above the sump ?
Will an Eheim 1250 water pump do ?
The size to the top edge of the top tank is 2.2M from the floor, or will i need to step up to the next size of pump, the 1260, because of the height ?
Eheim Universal Water Pumps

Tank Rack With Three Sumps At The Bottom

Sump design

FuglyDragon · Post by **FuglyDragon** » 17 Sep 2006, 07:19

yes thats pretty close to my design.

This was the dimensions i gave to my tank builder for the third sump.

Mistakes I made in the first two.

Having the overflow to low down - 50mm from top works fine.
Having the filter wool / foam too low down - works much better if its actually out of the water, have it 190mm from sump bottom now, works great.

I have my sumps connected to a header tank by a ball cock valve, so any lost water is automatically replaced.

As regards pumps, the head height is the killer, work out what you need according to manufatureres formulas than buy 2 models more powerfull than they recommend, better to have an excess of flow to deal with than not enough!
I use laguna utility pump model 5, runs 6+ tanks with top tanks at around 7 foot. rated at 4750 litres / hour max head 8 feet and is very cost effective to run.
at 30cm it drops to 4000l / hr
60 cm 3500 l/hr
90 cm 2950 l/hr
120 cm 2400 l/hr under half its rated l/hr at 0 head.
(Those figures are from the laguna site)
I tried a laguna 4 which is rated at 3700 l/hr (1750 @ 120cm) and it wouldn't run the top tanks at all with any others running.

1 tip / trick - with the sump so low its next to impossible to get a spyhon or anything to empty it out, I use a small eheim internal pump to pump out water for water changes, cleaning etc.

Also, re the overflow, I wasn't sure wether I would actually need an overflow, but I figured i'd better just in case. I'm glad I did. When you shut down the pump for whatever reason the sump fulls quickly with all the excess water in the system untill levels drop below your tank outflows and without the sump overflow it would be draining all over the floor in under 2 mins.

Another issue I discovered early on, if your feeders back into your tanks go too deep into the tank they will act as syphons if the pump is turned off and empty the tank down into your sump via the pump. I also found it very hard to gauge water flow with the feeders below tank water level so they are now all above the water level in each tank, no danger of back syphon and I can tell at a glance how much water is going into each tank.

grokefish · Post by **grokefish** » 17 Sep 2006, 09:12

Wow! all that effort has really paid off. Shallow tanks are great, catfish love them, if you look in nature many streams that corys and "plecs" live in are shallower than the hieght of popular aquarium sizes. You're so lucky having untreated water straight from your tap. The water round here is treated with the dreaded chloromine so you can't even just areate it to get rid of the chlorine, costing loads of money in water treatments when you're changing a hundred gals a week. I particularly like the xingu tank, has anyone been there? is the water clear or stained? what is the temp of the water? am I riegt in thinking it's on the high side? I'm gonna set up one of those...what was that dear, no it's not another bloody tank, um, its an old one I just moved from another room...

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » 17 Sep 2006, 22:06

Thanks again for all the help.

Tank Racks - a Couple of Questions

Three tier racks