Help - identifying lyre tail pleco

3bdesigns · Post by **3bdesigns** » 11 Jan 2006, 13:54

I'm looking to buy this pleco at my local fishy store and unfortunately, no one can remember the L number of the pleco. I don't have a picture of him, but I'm hoping some of you gurus can give me some potential L numbers he could be and can go look them up and see if I can find him.

Black
White spots
Lyre tail
Dorsal fin has a row of spots that run along the bottom of the fin
Both edges of the tail fin have white spots to the extent they look like wee "dashes" - very systematic looking
Has white body spots, not large, and not frequent, but very systematic. He's not heavily spotted like a snowball.

Any L numbers anyone can give me to go see if I can find my mystery pleco?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Jan 2006, 14:16

That description is not uniquely identifiable, but one likely candidate is , in which case I would advice strongly against purchasing this fish - it grows really big and is very agressive.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 11 Jan 2006, 14:22

My first guess would be

Not a suitable aqaurium fish really.

Second guess would be

This however is a fine fish to keep. Needs lots of wood and good filtration though.

*Something to note though is that spot size and spacing are not a very good identification character, as they change with age, and with different geographical poulations.

3bdesigns · Post by **3bdesigns** » 11 Jan 2006, 14:40

I'm going to try to get a picture of him....but that one you just pointed out is almost him! The only difference is the one that is in the store has a row of white spots, like the spots down the tail fin, along the bottom of the dorsal fin, versus the dorsal having the spots all over it like the body.

Is he a horrible aggressive pleco? I was thinking of putting him in a tank with some community fish (tetras) but no other plecos.

I already have troubles with an agressive L075 - he beat the crud out of my gorgeous mustard spot (who I could hand feed) and he died. They were both in a 55gal tank with 4 different caves but the Para decided he apparently needed to own all of them.

I love plecos - and love to "collect" them. I have a store who gets them in and will special order them for me, but I have to admit, I'm a bit of a novice in the pleco department. All my tanks are tetra tanks (I have so many different varieties) - I'll post pictures of my tanks in the other forum later along with pics of my plecos. And I have a betta in each tank (the red one in my avatar is in the 55gal with the aggressive Para).

What I have now:
55gal - Para pleco and a small bristlenose (he leaves him alone)
38gal - common (who is now 9" and needs to move out - getting to big - needs to go live in the koi pond), vampire, and golden nugget
25gal - 2 chocolate, clown
10gal - 2 high fin
10gal - unsure what he is, all get a pic & see if you guys can help
10gal - juvenile Columbian spotted, and what I think is a yellow seam. He's grey with bright yellow tips to his fins.

3bdesigns · Post by **3bdesigns** » 11 Jan 2006, 14:41

racoll wrote:Second guess would be
Panaque albomaculatus

This however is a fine fish to keep. Needs lots of wood and good filtration though.

I did have one of those actually. That was the one the store told me was a Mustard Spot that recently died (just this weekend). He was so cool - but he got a fungus infection after the Para beat him up and I couldn't save him. I'd love to get another.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Jan 2006, 15:13

There's fairly few plecos with long extensions on the caudal (tail) fin, that are also black with white spots.

The only other alternative that I'm aware of would be in the [url=http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/G_40.PHP
Pseudoacanthicus[/url] genus. Have a look and see if you can identify your fish there..

But I'm afraid that it's an Adonis/Lyre-tail pleco. They aren't extremely rare, and they are a nuisance in that they are both agressive and grow very large [3 feet large!] - search the forum for Acanthicus and you'll find several pictures or links to pictures of LARGE specimens. They grow relatively quickly too if they are looked after OK. And eventually, the white spots will disappear.

By the way, is the scientific name of Mustard spot pleco - although it's possible to find several other species where this name would match, so there's room for confusion.

--
Mats

starrfish71 · Post by **starrfish71** » 11 Jan 2006, 15:53

IMHO- not trying to start any kind of argument, but I love these fish and feel they are being unfairly represented-

I have kept 10" adonis in the past, and currently have two tiny babies. They are beautiful fish with fantastic personalities. They are very attentive to you and quickly learn to come to your hand for food or playing. They grow fairly slowly- they don't reach full size for many years. I had my 10" with a rhino pleco and they were fine. The babies I have are in with rainbows and dojo loaches, and are very fat and happy.

They are huge fish, and yes, they will eventually need a giant tank or pond to live in.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 11 Jan 2006, 15:58

I have no experience of how aggressive these fish are.

I was refering to the prohibitive size they achieve.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Jan 2006, 16:30

I agree with racoll, the shere size of it makes it very unsuitable for anyone living in an area where outdoor ponds go colder than around 20'C(70'F) for any length of time. So, if you live in florida, then it's probably OK to keep these fish, assuming you have a large enough garden to use up a few dozen square feet for a 4-6 feet deep pond.

But I don't think Iowa is a suitable place for this.

On top of this, the fish is REPORTED to be aggressive - there may well be individual differences, as well as perhaps sexual differences - if they are similar to other Loricariidae, males would be more aggressive than females. As with racoll, I have no personal experience with this fish, just repeating what other people say.

I'm of the opinion that anyone buying any fish, should be very sure that they can care for the fish for it's full, natural, life. In the case of the Acanthicus, that would be a fish that grows to around 3 feet, and lives for perhaps 50 years... That's not so easy to guarantee, and finding a home for a 20 year old Acanthicus that is 2-3 feet long is certainly not the same task a finding a suitable home for a 10" pleco that you can "just" give back to your LFS. Most public aquaria and zoos have a limited "large fish" space, which makes it hard to find such spaces - and of course, if you find a suitable home thousands of miles away, it's not quite easy to move them... Ever tried to ship a 3 foot fish with UPS? [No, I haven't tried that, but I can imagine that it's neither cheap nor triival to pack it safely and securely].

--
Mats

starrfish71 · Post by **starrfish71** » 11 Jan 2006, 16:45

I agree that for any animal you take on, you should be prepared to commit to them whatever they need. Never having lived in a cold climate, I don't know what I would do if I couldn't build a pond or aviary outside.
(The only reason I don't still have the 10" adonis from before is because I moved about 8 years ago, and in the course of the move, lost 3/4 of my collection- it was HORRIFYING- For anyone out there who's moving your fish- NEVER put the boxes on the floor of the U-Haul!!!!! I had no idea-)

anyway, I have parrots, as well as other pets- I'm the sort of person who looks at the critter and decides if I'm ready to commit to what they need for the next 50-90 years. I have agreements with friends and family memebers as to what happens to the animals if something should happen to me. The fish are included in this!

and I love adonis plecos!

3bdesigns · Post by **3bdesigns** » 11 Jan 2006, 17:14

I'm happy for everyone's input. My intension is to keep all my pets until they die (hopefully of natural causes).

If you want to take a gander at my critters (fish aren't there - gotta get them uploaded):
http://www.triplebmodels.net/triplebdrafters.html

mandy · Post by **mandy** » 13 Jan 2006, 19:47

I also have an Adonis....An 8" male. He lives with six other pl*cos.... They all love eachother and have for a very long time.

mandy · Post by **mandy** » 13 Jan 2006, 19:50

Oh yeah... I failed to mention he has a 1000 gallon aquarium to live in when he gets big.

I was also wondering.... Has anyone here actually ever seen an adult 28" one of these? I have a hard time beleiving he even gets that big.... I can definitly see that he gets big, he looks like one that does, but 28 "?? Or 3 feet like someone previously said.... Ei,yi,yi..... I want some proof...

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 13 Jan 2006, 22:38

Have a picture of that aquarium? Large tank setups have always interested me.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 13 Jan 2006, 23:08

mandy wrote:I was also wondering.... Has anyone here actually ever seen an adult 28" one of these? I have a hard time beleiving he even gets that big.... I can definitly see that he gets big, he looks like one that does, but 28 "?? Or 3 feet like someone previously said....

We have a specimen at work that is around the 18" mark (and extremely aggressive even in 1000 gallons), it's 6" smaller than I've seen myself (a 24"+ specimen was imported by a local dealer a while ago), a friend in Canada has shown me pictures of the specimens he collected over 24" and specimens over 30" have been shown by speakers at various Catfish Conventions over the years. There's a legendary picture of a mounted fish over a bar somewhere in S. America that was of enormous size, first time I saw it I had difficulty grasping just how big it was.

mandy · Post by **mandy** » 13 Jan 2006, 23:17

Well, I guess the only way I can know for sure is to go to this bar... What's the name of it?

Are you sure it wasnt just a channel cat?

(I' kidding...about the channel cat thing, not about the bar...

)

lotsabettas · Post by **lotsabettas** » 14 Jan 2006, 00:19

mandy wrote:Oh yeah... I failed to mention he has a 1000 gallon aquarium to live in when he gets big.

I was also wondering.... Has anyone here actually ever seen an adult 28" one of these? I have a hard time beleiving he even gets that big.... I can definitly see that he gets big, he looks like one that does, but 28 "?? Or 3 feet like someone previously said.... Ei,yi,yi..... I want some proof...

theres a picture of a huge one here http://www.neotropicalfauna.com/armoredcatfishes.htm and the one in the picture is actually for sale (or was when I last heard)

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 14 Jan 2006, 10:59

I also have an Adonis....An 8" male. He lives with six other pl*cos.... They all love eachother and have for a very long time.

I think that maybe this fish isn't mature yet.

I have noticed this with many Loricariids, when they reach sexual maturity they get much more aggresive!

Just like people really, well men anyway.

cichlidfinder · Post by **cichlidfinder** » 14 Jan 2006, 22:08

My Adonis is around 13 to 14 inches and housed in a 125 gallon standard 6 foot tank. I will say this on the subject. Anything placed in that tank that even remotely resembles another catfish is immediatly attacked. I mean vicously.

I know people have differant experiances and aggression can very greatly within a species.

It may have something to do with at what age the fish was imported. Mine was already 11 inches when it was imported. Maybe a juvinile raised around more plecos in captivity and still finds plenty of food will become more tolerante of others around his food supply? Just a thought.

The pics of mine are on this site somewhere maybe I should go find them lol.

3bdesigns · Post by **3bdesigns** » 17 Jan 2006, 15:38

That is one FRIGGIN' AWESOME catfish! I'm on the prowl for a 125 gallon tank.....the Adonis is a juvenile - just barely 2.5" long right now and in a tank with another adonis and 2 albino bristlenose juveniles (one is barely an inch long) and they all live in a 75 gallon tank with tons of live plants, big rocks, and 4 or 5 big discus. Maybe I'll luck out and they will be socialized enough that when he comes home with me he will be ok. But I don't mind having just one pleco in a tank - especially one that cool looking when he gets big.

0

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 17 Jan 2006, 15:45

A 125 gallon tank is generally 6 x 2 x 2 feet, which is definitely not big enough for a fish that will grow SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the 12 inches or thereabous that a 2 foot side of the tank is suitable for. You'll need a BIG indoor pond or seriously HUGE tank. Ok, so it may well be that it will live happily in a 125g tank for some time, but it will eventually need a bigger home than what most people can keep. If you go by the 4L x 2L x 2L, L being the length of the fish, and the fish grows to a mere 2 foot, you will need a tank that is 8 x 4 x 4, which makes 1000g.

--
Mats

Waldo · Post by **Waldo** » 18 Jan 2006, 06:46

Might I add if it is either the A adonis or the Panaque albomaculatus they are both agressive pleco's. My LDA31 have torn up some pretty hardy pleco's. Including a royal.... just ask barbie she knows ;)

If your L155 gets too big for that tank let me know. I'll sell it to asia or a meusium. They are always asking me for HUGE fish.

3bdesigns · Post by **3bdesigns** » 18 Jan 2006, 14:20

I'll keep you in mind for sure Waldo - I tried to subscribe to your site to see your tetras and plecos but it errored. I'd love to see your full listings!

Waldo · Post by **Waldo** » 18 Jan 2006, 16:32

PAEX must have a password to log on. In fear or people going down there to molest my business partner we don't give out a lot of information. As far as the pics go... it's probably sending and errer because we are opening a lof of our pictures to the public.