Batensoda - Synodontis or Brachysynodontis?

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Feb 2004, 16:03

I'm reading a book at the moment on Fish and Fishing in Ancient Egypt, and it states that Brachysynodontis has been placed in synonymy with Synodontis. Is this currently valid or has Brachysynodontis been resurrected?

Post by **Silurus** » 24 Feb 2004, 16:37

The most authoritative works to date place batensoda in Brachysynodontis.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Feb 2004, 17:21

OK thanks, being Egyptologists the authors were probably working with less-than current taxonomic information.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 28 Feb 2004, 10:26

I know this is off topic, but if anyone is visiting Paris and gets a chance to visit the Louvre, there is a permanent ancient Egypt exhibition where an entire room has been rebuilt. In the heiroglyphs you can clearly see a "menu" which includes catfish (Brachysynodontis I think). Interestingly they are depicted upside down.

Worth a look if you are visiting. The pictures I took didn't come out (was before I got a digital camera), so if you do go see it, we would all love to see the pics!

Jools

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 28 Feb 2004, 14:11

Jools wrote:In the hieroglyphs you can clearly see a "menu" which includes catfish (Brachysynodontis I think). Interestingly they are depicted upside down.

In Egyptian art Synos are depicted swimming both normally and upside down, this was probably to show the difference between B. batensoda and others such as S. schall. The illustrations are so good that the deep adipose fin with the long base of batensoda is clearly shown, and you can even see the humeral process! (although not in any detail)
B. batensoda amulets were worn as a protection against drowning, we have some in the collections at Bolton. There are plenty more Catfish references in ancient Egyptian texts, one early king had a name that actually meant 'Smiting Catfish'

Post by **Silurus** » 28 Feb 2004, 14:19

There are plenty more Catfish references in ancient Egyptian texts, one early king had a name that actually meant 'Smiting Catfish'

That would be Narmer (more accurately /nâ??rmr/), whose hieroglyphic name enclosed in a serekh looks like this:

The most evocative catfish reference the ancient Egyptians made would be to Malapterurus, which was known as "he who releases many", probably because the fisherman handling an electric catfish would drop the net from the shock and let the catch escape.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 28 Feb 2004, 16:51

Silurus wrote:That would be Narmer (more accurately /nâ??rmr/), whose hieroglyphic name enclosed in a serekh looks like this:

HH, you're too damn good by far!

Silurus wrote:The most evocative catfish reference the ancient Egyptians made would be to Malapterurus, which was known as "he who releases many", probably because the fisherman handling an electric catfish would drop the net from the shock and let the catch escape.

Have you got a reference for this? I've seen it several times, but not been able to find a definitive reference. I've also seen a reference to the fish being linked with thunder, but I think this is a confusion with the modern Arabic vernacular for it.

Post by **Silurus** » 28 Feb 2004, 17:54

Have you got a reference for this?

Read the opening paragraph of "Electric Fishes" by Peter Moller. It is mentioned that this was first indicated in the Hieroglyphica of Horapollo, a work dating from the fifth century.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 26 Dec 2005, 10:04

Back to the original question - fishbase has had this species in Synodontis for sometime now. Should it remain monotypic or should I move it into Synodontis and create a Brachysynodontis batensoda synonym?

Also, same question for Hemisynodontis membranaceus!

Jools

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Dec 2005, 11:44

Not only FishBase, but also CoF has them both as Synodontis.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 26 Dec 2005, 11:52

Well, they're Brachysynodontis on the display label and it'll be staying that way for the forseeable future....
Pete

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Dec 2005, 12:08

coelacanth wrote:Well, they're Brachysynodontis on the display label and it'll be staying that way for the forseeable future....
Pete

What display label do you mean, Pete?

Jorge · Post by **Jorge** » 26 Dec 2005, 13:02

I took this pic in a mastaba when I were there...

Post by **Silurus** » 26 Dec 2005, 13:12

I have read Willoughby (1994) [the reference by which CoF is following the generic assignment], and there is really no justification in there for synonymizing the two genera.

I would stick to Brachysynodontis for now.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 26 Dec 2005, 14:05

Well, at least things are now somewhat easier for Jools

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 26 Dec 2005, 23:58

Marc van Arc wrote: What display label do you mean, Pete?

The label on the Egyptian-themed c.500 gallon display we have housing 6 B. batensoda, 2 S. schall(just to keep the batensoda on their toes....), and 7 Oreochromis niloticus (the progeny of fish collected from a lake within the Nile system, so they should be about as genetically pure as can be hoped for).
There's also going to be a pair of Tilapia zillii (also from R. Nile stock) in there soon enough, we just wanted the other fish to establish themselves first.