bloated fries

du ma · Post by **du ma** » 16 Dec 2005, 23:29

I've always had bloat problems with my albino bristle nose fries in the early stages after hatching. I dont think it is genetic because I recently had spawns of other species of plecos and they are having the same problem. The temperatures are around 82-83 degrees fahrenheit, water quality is ideal, hardness is around 180 ppm, pH is in the high 6 or low seven, and dissolved oxygen is adequate.

This L287 frie died 3 hrs ago from the disease.

I also lost some zebra fries from the same problem.

Can anyone tell me if this is curable? Any help given will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Kana3 · Post by **Kana3** » 17 Dec 2005, 00:04

Hi Du Ma,

I'm far from the oracle, but happy to provide some logical steps, and guidance...

Bloating? Fry, I imagine, are too young for parasiticle ailments - Worms, Nodules, and such. Tumours probaly fall in to the 'too young' catagory as well.

However, the above all relate to tank cleanliness. How long does Dropsy (the obvious) take to kick in, I wonder?

Are you dosing the tank with any 'just in case' remedies, without having any particular ailment in mind? (ie: could an additive be the cause?)

How is your food? Is it suitable for fry? Is it FRESH? Doesn't come in plastic bags I hope...

You've ruled out the family tree, so none with two heads.

Where are you MatsP? Help me out here...

du ma · Post by **du ma** » 17 Dec 2005, 00:55

Thankyou for the quick reply Kana3.

The problem occured while the bristle noses are in their yolk sac stage.

The L46 and L287 started after their yolk sacs are absorbed and their diet consist of mainly Hikari caniovre pellets.

No chemicals/medications were used prior to the problem.

Kana3 · Post by **Kana3** » 17 Dec 2005, 01:58

I'm not overly familiar with the Hikari range. Pellets sound a tad on the large size. I don't have any idea of how big your fry are. In my experiance, I've needed liquid suspended, or fine powdered (Sera) food (for Blue Rams and Cory's). I've only just discovered my clutch of Bristlenose, and so haven't actually fed them yet!

Do you have the resources to establish a completely fresh tank in which to place the eggs? This would certainly establish wether your problem is environmental, or with your stock (genetic or infected).

It's a puzzler!

Post by **Barbie** » 17 Dec 2005, 03:38

Are you only losing fry that are in floating containers with this? The only time I've had this problem was when I would have a reduction in flow through the condos I used for the fry, for whatever reason. I actually use sponge filters or small pumps to run the water through now, and I've not had another problem with it since, even with varying their diet pretty drastically. I've also never had a fry that had that problem recover, I'm sorry to say

.

Barbie

Azmeaiel · Post by **Azmeaiel** » 17 Dec 2005, 05:12

I had a similar problem at high temps of around 80 (hot weather, I usually keep them 74-77) and once when a tank was accidently overfed, the problem dissappeared after water became cooler and other tank was cleaned up.

Post by **Barbie** » 17 Dec 2005, 07:05

I keep almost all of my Hypancistrus well over 80 degrees. Most about 84, with the H. zebras as high as 90 at different times. The temperatures do definitely affect the amount of dissolved oxygen available, so I make sure to run two sources of filtration with maximum surface disturbance to compensate. That's why I asked about the floating boxes. If I turn the flow off on my condos, the fry will go to the top looking for more oxygen within a half hour or so. Happy fry won't leave the floor of their container, IME.

Barbie

Kana3 · Post by **Kana3** » 17 Dec 2005, 08:32

You've raised some very interesting points there Barbie. I believe I have application for your advice in regard to my Cory raising.

Something else I did with my floating fry boxes, was to cut 1" windows, and then silicon some wedding veil mesh over them. Although this was directed more toward getting a flow through of fresh water to clear fry waste rather than the temp / oxygen aspect.

Post by **Barbie** » 17 Dec 2005, 09:14

I cut holes in the boxes and then notch aquaclear filter sponges so that they "lock" into the holes. I then run a pretty good volume of water through each of the boxes. This might be necessary more because I do keep the fish at warmer temperatures, also. I do not lose fry with this method though, and I did with a couple of the others I've tried. At some point I need to get some more detailed pictures of the condos I use, I think, so people get a better idea how they work. You can see one Here.

Barbie

du ma · Post by **du ma** » 17 Dec 2005, 11:12

I was loosing zebra fries in the fry trap. I have an airstone in the trap plus a small viaqua pump that supplies about 40 -50 gallons of fresh water from the main tank every hour. I also have a bushynose in the trap to clean up after the zebras.

Should I drill more holes in the trap?

I found another inflated L287 when I came home

. They are housed in a twenty gallon tank filtered by a diy wet dry filter. I just added an extra airstone for more aeration.

I also dropped the temperature by two degrees. We'll see how things go.

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 17 Dec 2005, 14:23

Hello, I was reading on another forum that Hikari puts MSG in their food... I can't help but wonder if it could be the MSG making them bloated, it makes some people bloated by causing them to retain water and it gives me a headache and makes me very thirsty.... *shrugs* Something to think about. Try another food and see if it continues to happen.

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32334

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 18 Dec 2005, 01:33

Although, my vertebrate morphology class did not mention the specifics of siluriformes development, the fry of many fish species possessing an air bladder have to fill these soon after passing the wriggler stage to control bouyancy.

Just speculating here, but I would imagine it is quite possible for the fry to either have a problem removing excess air from the bladder or to have the air go to the stomach rather than the air bladder and again not be able to excise the air.

An interesting side note to this is that the air bladder or stomach of many catfish species may actually act as an accessory breathing apparatus. Hoplosternum littorale is one species that actually uses its intestines in gas exchange and is often seen gulpingat the surface or regurgitating spent air.