What is a bind cave

jammos · Post by **jammos** » 05 Dec 2005, 07:00

hi

i have heard about this for a while and was wondering how to set it up for L14s?

Any help would be great.

Post by **Silurus** » 05 Dec 2005, 10:54

Do you mean a blind cave?

That's just the regular ("dead-end") cave one would set up for plecos.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 Dec 2005, 11:23

L14 grows pretty large, so you need something pretty big.

Try your local DIY shop for some waste-pipes, around 4" diameter perhaps. Have a look around to see what you can find...

Having a "end-cap" on the cave is essential for pleco's, as they like to be able to guard the cave.

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Mats

jammos · Post by **jammos** » 05 Dec 2005, 18:39

hi and yes it was supposed to be a blind cave thanks.

Ok so plecos are the same as ancistrus but the just need a bigger version.

so how long would the pipe be? about 12"?

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 05 Dec 2005, 20:27

As a general rule of thumb with Ancistrine plecos 1.5 to 2 times the length of the male fish is a good starting point.

tjudy · Post by **tjudy** » 05 Dec 2005, 22:56

What about width? I have a two inch diameter tube that my male pleco can get into, but there is little room for another in there with him. Does there need to be room for both fish at the same time?

jammos · Post by **jammos** » 06 Dec 2005, 07:35

does make an interesting question tjudy!

so therefor i will need about a 2 foot long peice of pipe if they grow to 14 inches?

also does it need a pvc end cap or does burring it into the stones enough?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 06 Dec 2005, 11:05

I would put an end-cap on it. These fish can digg, so just burrowing the end in the gravel may end up making it a tunnel instead of a cave.

And yes, a two-foot piece is probably adequate.

Having space for two fish in the cave would be advisable if you want to breed them, but they aren't necessarily going to fit in side-by side, but rather one slightly in front of the other...

Oh, and the fish likes to have a choice, so if you happen to have more than one cave, I'm sure the fish aren't going to complain.

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Mats

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 06 Dec 2005, 14:33

Some fish will have slighly different preferences, but as far as width the other suggestion would be:

As wide as the male fish plus a little less than or equal to 1 pectoral fin length.

This way the fish is able both to move about in the cave, and completed block it with his body.

jammos · Post by **jammos** » 06 Dec 2005, 21:26

ok thanks everyone sounds good

seajays · Post by **seajays** » 06 Dec 2005, 21:49

Can a cave have an open bottom sitting on the sand or should it be closed?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Dec 2005, 13:36

Open bottom on the sand is fine as long as the cave is reasonably heavy (or weighed down by something else). If the cave is made from relatively light material, such as plastic pipework bits, it may end up being moved around by the fish and may not work quite so well. I think this was the basis of failure with one of my bamboo caves where the Ancistrus male kicked out the eggs during his guarding.

But fish will dig out the cave in case of gravel bottom, and my first spawn of Ancistrus was in fact a cave dug out from under a piece of slate by the male itself, with no cave at all there when it started. I'm sure bigger plecos will also be able to dig quite well..

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Mats

PlecoCrazy · Post by **PlecoCrazy** » 11 Dec 2005, 05:09

If its an open bottom cave and they do breed, then you decide you want to remove the eggs before they hatch. It will not be near as simple if it only had one opening. The eggs may fall out the bottom of your open bottom cave if you were to pull it out rather than keeping them nicely at the bottom where the end cap is.

If your just going to leave the eggs in the tank and let the dad take care of them then I guess it wouldn't matter as much.

seajays · Post by **seajays** » 11 Dec 2005, 18:10

I had planned to put them in a 20 gal by them selves

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Dec 2005, 14:42

seajays wrote:I had planned to put them in a 20 gal by them selves

I presume this isn't L14's.. They need plenty more than a 20gal.

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Mats

seajays · Post by **seajays** » 12 Dec 2005, 17:12

Albino Bristle nose