Has anyone managed to breed L104 (Panaque Maccus)?

ikan · Post by **ikan** » 30 Nov 2005, 05:28

I like to know if anyone has managed to breed L104 (Panaque Maccus) in an aquarium? I have looked on the internet but I can't find a specific report/discussion about a successfull breeding of this fish. I can only find a general info on breeding without the actual facts or proves. I have 4 L104, I think they are still young (about 2 inches long).

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Nov 2005, 10:28

There are some accidental spawnings that have been reported (supposedly, I haven't seen any of those either), but like you, I haven't been able to find any REAL reports on it.

Here's as much information as I've been able to find:
1. From judging by most other species - they would almost certainly benefit from a temp/hardness drop to trigger them.
2. They probably want wooden/bamboo caves rather than stone/clay/plastic caves. Perhaps it's better with a "side" entrance than a end-entrance, but that's just a guess.
3. Males are pretty easy to tell apart from females if they are mature enough - males have lots of odontodes (hairy growth) on the back of the body, and more noticable cheek odontodes too.

Once I get my fish-room setup [don't hold your breath], I'll give it a go. But at the moment, mine are looking pretty nicely gravid, but living in a big tank with lots of others.

If you're planning on making a first attempt on breeding, I think there are some other species that would be much easier - and probably more easy to sell too. But if you already have a male and female(s), and have a spare tank, give it a go.

--
Mats

kim m · Post by **kim m** » 30 Nov 2005, 10:46

A guy i Danmark bred them last year, but I don't know what he did, only that it was registered as a "fist time in Denmark"-breeding at the Danish Aquarium Union.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 30 Nov 2005, 13:24

I know shane is about to spawn these guys if he has not already. i plan to spawn them. i am raising 5 that are now at least 2 inches, so another 12-18 months and they should be ready. i have seen behavior of the following:
1) i have a piece of slate in there with gravel. they will move the gravel to create caves, which i find very interesting for ones this small.
2) my male that is 3.5 inches chasing everyone else around at feeding time, but this is probably common

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 30 Nov 2005, 14:02

Here are some pics of a German LDA67 spawn which should be quite the same. His fish have spawned twice now as far as im to date. If you dont understand the german youll have plenty of pics. In this tank
If you need any further information I could ask him.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 30 Nov 2005, 14:41

Caol_ila wrote:Here are some pics of a German LDA67 spawn which should be quite the same. His fish have spawned twice now as far as im to date. If you dont understand the german youll have plenty of pics. In this tank
If you need any further information I could ask him.

Thanks for the links. There's no information [with my limited understanding of german] on triggers, pH, hardness, etc. Did he just plop the fish into the tank and wait, or did he actually do something to make them spawn?

--
Mats

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 30 Nov 2005, 20:58

As far as I understood him it was just sit and wait...Ill ask him for the parameters.

ikan · Post by **ikan** » 01 Dec 2005, 01:17

[/quote] 1) i have a piece of slate in there with gravel. they will move the gravel to create caves, which i find very interesting for ones this small.
[quote][/quote]

ikan · Post by **ikan** » 01 Dec 2005, 01:18

1) i have a piece of slate in there with gravel. they will move the gravel to create caves, which i find very interesting for ones this small.

That is interesting behaviour. I have bare bottom tank, maybe I should consider a substrate.

Caol_ila,
thank you for the link. I think currently the link is down, I'll try again later.

I am predicting that we will have some spawning of L104 in Australia in the next couple of years. We have a very very limited choice of L number that can be legally imported, actually only 1 that is L168. The legal importation law for L168 just started in October this year. But about 3000 L104 got through the customs because the quarantine people got confused, they thought they were L168. That's how I got my L104, they still cost US$45 each. I don't think we will get another batch of L104 through the quarantine again. They know what L168 looks like now.
Because they are rare people like to breed them. We have a couple other species that are locally bred for many years ie the common bristlenoses (ancistrus temmincki) and the ancistrus hoplogenys (peppermint/snowflake). I am sure they are more tank raised ancistrus hoplogenys in Australia than anywhere else in the world. The same might be the case with L104 in the future.
First we need to know how to breed them.

Post by **Shane** » 01 Dec 2005, 03:26

No success on my end yet despite the fish getting some very special treatment. I had the tank set up with two males and two females. I recently removed one male and added some different sizes and shapes of caves to see if it makes a difference.
-Shane

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 01 Dec 2005, 17:54

Hi,

MatsP wrote:
Thanks for the links. There's no information [with my limited understanding of german] on triggers, pH, hardness, etc. Did he just plop the fish into the tank and wait, or did he actually do something to make them spawn?

hereÂ´s another short report:
http://l-welse.com/forum/articles.php?a ... &artid=471

Manu didnÂ´t do any special tricks to breed them.
Now they seem to breed regulary.
And I know a third successful breeding - in a tank of a good friend of mine - in Viennese tap water (280 ÂµS/cm, pH about 7, T 27 Â° C)

ikan · Post by **ikan** » 02 Dec 2005, 05:17

Walter,

Thanks for the link.
I really enjoyed reading the article (with the help from Babel fish translation).

Shane,
Good luck with your breeding program.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 09 Dec 2005, 13:08

Panaque maccus is featured as catfish of the month in November 2001 (I think) with spawning account.

Mine are like round balls now but no spawning - it appears that the person who wrote the article spawned them in PVC caves(?)

Buckthorn · Post by **Buckthorn** » 31 Oct 2007, 12:22

Anyting new, about breeding L104?

Breeding articles, perhaps?
(The links are to old. They are not on the www)

Erlend D Bertelsen · Post by **Erlend D Bertelsen** » 31 Oct 2007, 12:43

Hi all.

I have bred them many times.

I have also written an article about it. Only in Norwegian. The article was also published in Guardians of catfish Mal biten 1/2007 http://akvaforum.no/text.cfm?id=1981.

E

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 31 Oct 2007, 14:59

Erlend D Bertelsen wrote:Hi all.

I have bred them many times.

I have also written an article about it. Only in Norwegian. The article was also published in Guardians of catfish Mal biten 1/2007 http://akvaforum.no/text.cfm?id=1981.

E

Erlend,

It would be very niuce indeed to have that Klovnepleco article translated in English for the site.

Jools

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 31 Oct 2007, 15:17

Yes, I PM'd erlend suggesting that he could either translate it, or I could help with the translation.

--
Mats

Buckthorn · Post by **Buckthorn** » 31 Oct 2007, 15:29

Erlend D Bertelsen wrote:Hi all.

I have bred them many times.

I have also written an article about it. Only in Norwegian. The article was also published in Guardians of catfish Mal biten 1/2007 http://akvaforum.no/text.cfm?id=1981.

E

Hmmm, I have not read malbiten yet, but I have it at home. Shame on me!

One question: Do you have a pair or the whole group, when they breed in your aquarium?

If a group, how many?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 31 Oct 2007, 15:36

The link indicates that there are 7 adults in a 152 liter tank.

I have three (2 females and one male) that have spawned in the tank, but the eggs didn't hatch.

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:32

There is now a version of this article in English here at PlanetCatfish:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=355

Thanks to Erlend for allowing us to reproduce the article.

--
Mats

Syno_Eupterus. · Post by **Syno_Eupterus.** » 10 Nov 2007, 03:41

I have four living in a 55 gal species tank...Three females and two males. Tried many times to get them spawning and no go.

Fact is my syno. euppies have gotten closer to spawning then them lately. So they are very difficult to spawn:(

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 16 Nov 2007, 11:16

Alternatively, you may not be providing an environment suitable for spawning these fish (that is not to say they are being improperly cared for).

ikan · Post by **ikan** » 18 Nov 2007, 13:46

I still have 3 of the orginal 4 that I bought 2 years ago. They are all males!
I bought another one that I think is a female probably 9 months ago.
I would like to get a couple more females but prefer to buy adult fish so I can be sure that they are females.
This is only possible if I get them from other fish keepers because aquarium shops where I live only sell young ones around 2 inches in length.
I just moved them to a 100 litres tank that has Java fern and top filter.