Plecos that can adapt to Harder Water

Thebear · Post by **Thebear** » 27 Nov 2005, 17:50

Hi

I have a 125 gal tank that I am planning to put some larger Tanganyikan Cichlid species in. I know many people have been successful slowly adapting Plecos to harder water. Lately I've been looking at some of the rarer Plecos, such as L095, L025, and the Blue Phantom. Would these be adaptable?

Thanks

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 27 Nov 2005, 17:56

I would not keep plecos other than bristlnose with tangs, even the bigger plecos. for one, most don't like the higher ph. Some do though, but i just would not keep them in there, if you put driftwood in for them then i would consider L128, blue phantoms. i would put synos in there

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 27 Nov 2005, 18:04

Yes plecs are very adaptable, but personally I wouldn't keep any wild "exotic" plec at the pH and hardness of a Rift Lake tank.

Commercially bred common and bristlenose plecs should be fine though.

Thebear · Post by **Thebear** » 27 Nov 2005, 18:17

Hi

I was definitely planning on adding driftwood and keeping around the lower end of the Tang PH spectrum (8.0-8.4), but I don't want to risk it with these rarer species of plecs. Anyone have any first hand experience with this. I know I've seen Gold Nuggets in rift setups.
Thanks for the replies guys.

Post by **Barbie** » 27 Nov 2005, 18:47

Of all the fish mentioned in the thread, gold nuggets would be the most difficult to keep happy in a rift set up, I'd think.

I have a somewhat different approach to keeping my fish happy and healthy than some do. I raise a good number of Tanganyikan cichlids and I keep them all in my Spokane tap water at a pH of 7.8. It's very stable there, although the water isn't terribly hard, either. I do weekly 30-40% water changes and my fish spawn and behave normally. This includes my colonies of wild fish.

I do the same thing with my 20 species of Lori's. I acclimate the fish to my tap water slowly to avoid stress, then I keep the parameters very stable until I'm trying to spawn them. Then I fluctuate them with a rainy season of RO water. I'm not spawning plecos other than Ancistrus in Tanganyikan tanks, but then again, I haven't tried, either ;). I currently keep 6 7-8" L128 in a 125 gallon tank with A. calvus, N. buescheri, N. leleupi, C. leptosoma, and a pair of A. compressiceps sumbu dwarf. They have all got their own "regions" of the tank and there's a bit of driftwood for rasping and lots of rocks. I've yet to have one of the L128 even have a split fin. At feeding time, they boil out and actually keep the cichlids away from the food. It is NOT an ideal set up for either, but at the moment, it's what I have room for, and it does work.

Someday I'll grow up and be a catfish purist ;). You know, when I can convince my husband he doesn't need to be able to SEE the fish!

Barbie

bedwetter · Post by **bedwetter** » 27 Nov 2005, 19:08

why would gold nuggets be one of the more difficult species to keep with rift lake cichlids? Just curious

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 27 Nov 2005, 21:07

I have always kept plecos in my Tang tanks. My Tang aquariums are about 8.3 ph and very hard
(24 dh GH and 10 dh KH). There are too many plecos I would not recommend so I will suggest a
few. I will also say that much depends on which Tanganyikan fish you are going to keep. Many smaller
Tangs such as Julidochromis species can be very aggressive towards bottom dwelling catfish
when spawning. Large C. frontosa tend to ignore plecos so the size of the cichlids you want
to put in your aquarium is not as important as their temperament.

Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus (L001) is a great species to go with cichlids as they tend to be
rather aggressive themselves. Most Pterygoplichthys including the common pleco (Pterygoplichthys pardalis)
are good choices. I would suggest most Hypostomus and Leporacanthicus species also.
L025, L200. L128, L095 should all work depending on the Tang species you decide upon.
I usually keep one large pleco in my cichlid tanks and that seems to work fine. If you want to
buy a really cool exotic pleco that is expensive then it's just a matter of how much money
you're willing to risk.

laurab5 your advice sounds more like your guessing rather than speaking from direct
experience. I'm not trying to slam you but I do know that Barbie has cautioned you about
giving advice that may be out of your realm of experience.

One of my friends and I both keep a Baryancistrus sp. L018 in one of out cichlid tanks but
I would agree that L018 may not be the best choice and our L018's are not in what I would call ideal conditions.

fishboy23 · Post by **fishboy23** » 27 Nov 2005, 23:45

Just to start a small debate on this topic (

), the first article I ever read on zebra plecos was in an Aquarium Fish Magazine from about 10 years ago. In it, the author wrote of two documented spawnings of zebras...one in a SA tank, one in a tank with parameters we would call African Cichlid tank. I think this probably goes to show that most fish can acclimate to just about any parameters (other than salinity, which I've learned NOT to play with).
In my opinion, if zebras can acclimate to that type of tank (and spawn) most any pleco could do the same. However, I personally would not keep any fancy Hypancistrus with some M. Auratus cichlids. It is probably possible to keep them in with relatively passive cichlids.
Hope to hear from the experts on this one.
Gary

this smiley is just too awesome to not put in a post

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 28 Nov 2005, 11:45

bedwetter wrote:why would gold nuggets be one of the more difficult species to keep with rift lake c*****ds? Just curious

Gold nuggets are wild-caught, and live in water with very low hardness (around 5 gh) and low pH (around 5-6). Rift-lakes have high hardness (around 20 gh) and high pH (around 8 or so).

Since the pH scales is logarithmic, every change of 1 in either direction means 10 times, a pH of 5 going to pH of 8 would mean 1000 times less acidic. That's a big change.

Generally, captive bred fish is often easier to keep in average conditions (pH 7 and gh around 10). Seems like nothing is wrong with them, eating and behaving like normal gold nuggets.

Having said that, I keep Gold nugget plecos in unmodified south of england tap-water, which has a pH closer to 8 than anything else, and is fairly hard (haven't actually measured it, but according to hardness maps of England it's "Hard/Very hard" in this region).

--
Mats

Post by **Janne** » 28 Nov 2005, 20:44

There are always some missunderstandings when it comes how hard the water are in Lake Malawi...it's not hard...it's soft with a higher pH just above 8. The conductivity that lake are around 300-350 ÂµS which are ~6-8 dGH which are considered as soft water.
Lake Tanganyika are harder and have a conductivity around 600 ÂµS which are ~12-14 dGH which are considered as hard water with a pH depending where in the lake it's measured up around 9.

Rivers in South America can be so low in conductivity that you cant measure the dGH and in some cases some rivers are similar to Lake Tanganyika (rare), more common is a conductivity between 20-60 ÂµS which are very soft and not recommended for a tanksetup because the pH will not be stable in such low hardnes without changing water nearly every day. I think the problem are more related to black water species that can be hard and sometimes impossible to addapt to a high pH and too hard water when clear and white water species seams to addapt quite easily with higher parameters.

Janne

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 28 Nov 2005, 20:56

How does one measure conductivity?

Post by **Barbie** » 28 Nov 2005, 21:25

Gold nugget plecos have a reputation for being somewhat difficult to initially acclimate and keep. I also have 2 that are living in a 55 gallon tank with shelldwelling cichlids from Lake Tanganyika with no problem, but I thought I might have just been lucky with them. I've actually always had good luck with gold nuggets but the general consensus seems to be that most people do not.

Barbie

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 29 Nov 2005, 10:17

There are always some missunderstandings when it comes how hard the water are in Lake Malawi...it's not hard...it's soft with a higher pH just above 8. The conductivity that lake are around 300-350 ÂµS which are ~6-8 dGH which are considered as soft water.
Lake Tanganyika are harder and have a conductivity around 600 ÂµS which are ~12-14 dGH which are considered as hard water with a pH depending where in the lake it's measured up around 9.

Very interesting Janne!

How does one measure conductivity?

very unsurprisingly, with an electrical conductivity meter!

Mine is made by Hanna

http://www.hannainst.com/

very handy bits off equipment!

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 29 Nov 2005, 16:22

racoll
Thanks for the info and I talked with a guy from Hanna USA today. The meter is about $50 US
and that even fits in my budget. I think I will invest in a small R/O unit also. My tap water
is to hard even for some African fish so my cichlid tanks could also benifit from a little R/O water.

As to the comments about Lake Malawi I would agree that some African cichlids do better
with less GH. I've found that Lake Victoria cichlids don't like my tap water but I believe that
KH (carbonate hardness) is more of a factor. I also found this.

Of the three, Victoria possesses the lowest amount of multivalent metallic cation concentrations,
meaning lower general hardness, as well as lower levels of dissolved carbonates and bicarbonates,
which, of course, translates to lower carbonate hardness.