Growthrate of baryancistrus, I would like to know others exp

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 09 Oct 2005, 14:56

According to most descriptions I have read of L-18, L-81 and L-177 (also other baryancistrus though I have not kept others) seem to indicate that most species in the genus grow to around 12" (30cm). Planet catfish cat-e-log lists L-18 as 355mm or 14.2".

I have never seen a baryancistrus over 5" and that was only once - mostly they seem to be 2-3" for sale.

I have a colony(10) of mixed L-18 and L-177 that I have had for about 2 years and they do not seem to grow much at all. Some of the animals seem to get smaller(?).
(there are 6 other loricaridae in the tank 125 gal with the same food that my other fish grow well on and weekly waterchanges). As mentioned, I notice that most of my other fish grow quite well yet most plecos grow slowly - especially the baryancistrus.

So:
What has been your experience when keeping baryancistrus? How do they grow?
WHat is the biggest one that someone has actually raised from say 2-4" ? To what size and how long did it take?

I would like to see them breed but at this rate it would take 20 years to reach the 8" or so that I have been informed it takes to have them mature and breed.

Is there something I should be doing differently to get them to grow ?

Please - answer only with personal experience - I have read articles and descriptions but never seen or spoken to someone who has actually experienced it, thanks.
Thanks

Post by **Barbie** » 09 Oct 2005, 18:22

I have 2 L177 in a 55 gallon tank in my spare bedroom. The tank is stacked with bogwood, with a sand substrate and revolving inhabitants as the tank space is needed. I've owned these fish for 5 years, and moved them down from Anchorage with my last move. They are both right at 4" SL, and seem to have been that length for the last 2 years. They were just over 2" SL when I purchased them, and they grew steadily at first. Both are plump and healthy. The tank gets my standard regimen of water changes and food and I've grown out MANY batches of other types of fish during this time, in that tank. They just aren't growing fast enough to be able to notice it, IMO.

Not really much help, but it is my experience, sorry!

Barbie

barksten · Post by **barksten** » 09 Oct 2005, 19:41

I have a L177 that was growing from about 2" to 4" in the first year or so. Since then it has stayed the same size for 2-3 years or so. ItÂ´s my slowest growing pleco, no doubt.
(i like to be very exact with numbers

)

Jackster · Post by **Jackster** » 09 Oct 2005, 19:49

An importer told me that unfortunately many Gold Nuggets die in captivity.
His theory was that they only grow to a size of 5"- 6" and then seem to die an unexplained death.
In order to spawn them they must attain a much larger size and I do not have the answer to the mystery.
My theory would be that they must be suffering from some type of nutrient deficiency.

Post by **Janne** » 09 Oct 2005, 19:55

They seems to be slow grower, I bought a group of L81 and LDA33 about 4 years ago...L81 was around 5-6 cm and are today between 13-16 cm and have started to show maturity, the LDA33 was around 7-9 cm and have growth to be between 17-20 cm and also show maturity.
They need to be fed quite often to show any growth but it takes some time anyway, depending on what genus to compare with they dont grow more slowly then Hypancistrus specis but much slower then Ancistrus.

My theory would be that they must be suffering from some type of nutrient deficiency.

It's common with internal parasites in this genus like nematodes and when you purchase them it's vise to use some medications against this problem.

Janne

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 09 Oct 2005, 19:57

I had (gave them to my father) two LDA33 and a nugget.

They grew from 2.5" to about 4" TL in about 18 months. Some Panaque L002 i got at that time grew from 2" to about 4.5" in the same period.

I think that was due to the higher protein diet that the Panaque got, as well as their smaller adult size.

Post by **Barbie** » 09 Oct 2005, 20:12

My L177 are fat and happy. They get an extremely varied diet, and I have a little experience with raising plecos ;). I seriously doubt they are wanting for something dietarily that hasn't shown itself in some other symptom besides lack of growth. My L177 show odontodal growth much more obvious than most juvenile fish I've kept. I wish I'd kept more than 2, at this point, so see if I could see any dimorphism. I guess I'll have to buy a few more and grow them out.

Barbie

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 10 Oct 2005, 03:55

Tjena Janne,
#1 - what do you feed them to get them to grow that well?(koldolmar??

)
Do you usually medicate all your new fish regardless of if they show signs of disease or not?
If so - what do you use?

I notice that other fish in the tank have not become stunted in growth and all fish are doing well with no disease or deaths in over two years - would this not be an indication of well being?

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 10 Oct 2005, 03:57

Thanks everyone,
it seems your experiences are very consistent with mine.

SO either this is how it normaly is and all is well or we have to find out what the missing link is (I'm assuming).

Post by **Janne** » 10 Oct 2005, 20:41

When I suspect that my fishes have problem with internal parasites I use Metronidazole combinied with salt but lately I have been used Jungle Internal Parasite Guard which contain the same but are easier to get.
When I purchase new fishes and specially Baryancistrus I always medicate them, all fishes can live quite happily with a few nematodes inside but grow very slow...after I sent species to the Swedish Vetrinary institution for exam for an other problem I could not understand and they find one or two nematodes in almost every species I have done this medication to be regular with new fishes.

I feed Baryancistrus with plecotabs twice a day and once or twice a week with frozen mussles, something to remember with these genus...they grow first on their lenght and then they start to get broader

Janne

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 11 Oct 2005, 14:33

Thanks Janne,
I will try to add some salt and metro in with the fish over the next few weeks and see if it helps.

One other thought on the internal parasite:
If most wildcaught species come in with some form of intestinal parasites from the rivers they are caught and then are put in a tank where feedings are much more regular and balanced, where the food is either frozen and sterilized or dry - shouldn't they end up with much less intestinal problems and grow much easier then the wild ones who get much more exposure to the parasites?

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 11 Oct 2005, 14:36

Oh, and I just realized I keep another type of baryancistrus - L-47 mango pleco which seem to actually shrink from the time I got them. I have also heard form other people that they seem to grow very slowly if at all and I'm pretty sure I put them on metro when I first got them about 2 years ago.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Oct 2005, 14:41

Tjena INXS,

I would think that the wild species have a better source of food than most of us aquarists give them. Not in terms of being BETTER food, but in the sense that there is food available not just a couple of times per day, but it's available basicly 24 hr per day. Of course, the fish may have to move around a bit to find this food, but it's still a case of "food is always available".

These fish do GRAZE, i.e. should continuously have food available. Unfortunately, this doesn't work well in fish-tanks for several reasons (it gets eaten by others and the water goes bad, would be the two most important factors).

This is why these species will grow better in the wild than it does in a tank.

--
Mats

Post by **Janne** » 11 Oct 2005, 19:29

Mats are right, one more thing many forgot is just the fact that we can never give our fishes the same quality of water in a tank what they are used too from the rivers and one good example is Nitrate...you can barely measure that in the wild (<0,1) and all kind of nitrogene affects the upptake of oxygen in their blood...less oxygen slower growth.

Janne

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 11 Oct 2005, 20:04

OK tackar Matte och Janne,

I thought it was actually the opposite with the food - that there is not always ample amounts of food available. I thought that wild animals have to be opportunistic because they don't know when the next meal will present itself.Is this not the case with plecos?

The waterquality I can see. I have noticed that my luck with new fish has been much , much better since I started acclimating them in a cycled tank of 200-500 litres instead of the regular quarantine tank of 40-80. Also no food for the first 2-3 days seems to help and now I have almost no losses.

I read about a study Jack Wattley did on discus - raising 1/2 of a batch of fry in a 20 gallon tank with 1/2 daily waterchanges and half in a 2 gallon tank with several 80% waterchanges daily (or something like that) he mentioned that in about a month the fry in the smaller tank with more waterchanges grew about double.

Perhaps it is time to do such a study with plecos.