Help.......

mells · Post by **mells** » 21 Sep 2005, 21:54

Hi Guys,

Oh im devasted- tonight I was looking at my fish, and I notice my clown loaches are covered in white spots, at fist glance I thought it might be sand, but then realised they were swimming, in which the snad would of fallen off.

I have 8 bristlenoses, one goldy pleco and an albino pleco in their.

From what I can tell, the albino and one bristlenose are infected.

I have whitespot control- can I put this in the tank with all of them?

Any adv is greaty appriachated.

Mells

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 22 Sep 2005, 01:09

What you have is ich. Go get some rid-ich now and you can save them.

Post by **Barbie** » 22 Sep 2005, 02:36

Plecos and loaches both can be very sensitive to ridich and other products containing methylene blue, malachite green, or formalin. There are numerous other ways to treat ich that work just as effectively, with much less danger to the fish, IMO. Have you ever actually treated with it laurab5? Or is this more advice about things you've read about other places, but not actually done yourself? PLEASE keep in mind that anyone reading your advice and running out and doing just that could lose the fish they are so anxious to save!

Mells, first and foremost, there is a post at the top of this forum that asks for detailed answers to many questions about your tank. If you provide us with that information, you'll be much more apt to get information that will be of true help to you that way. Ich can be brought on by a number of things and without identifying the cause, no treatment will be very effective.

To stem the spread of the disease for now, pending the full information, I recommend a careful gravel vac'ing of the tank during a 30% water change, the addition of salt (table, aquarium, it doesn't matter, just not marine!) at one teaspoon per net gallon of water in the system, and raising the temperature of the tank to 84 degrees. If your other parameters are where they should be, repeating this treatment every day for 3 days, then continuing the daily changes and heat with no salt will usually rid you of the ich in about a week. There are products on the market like metronidazole that are also very effective in treating ich, but salt, heat and careful gravel vac'ing the tank can get you there in about the same amount of time, with less potential stress to the fish.

I'll look forward to hearing more detailed information about your tank!

Barbie

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 24 Sep 2005, 00:24

I used Rid Ich in my tank with clown loaches (silly beginer mistake) and killed them all....

Edit: I found copper safe to be the most effective and safe... as long as you do not have any snails or shrimp in the tank. The good thing about it also is that it is a treatment for one time a month.

good luck with everything!

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 24 Sep 2005, 00:41

I used ridich on my clown plecos when I got them and twice with my L260. They weren't affected by it.

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 24 Sep 2005, 01:31

That very well may be Laurab5 but he/she was not asking about clown pl*cos.... he/she was speaking of clown loaches. As far as that goes... barbie explained it pretty good regarding their sensitivities and whatnot to certain meds... rid ich has malachyte green in it which is VERY toxic to clown loaches. Laurab5, have you kept clown loaches?

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 24 Sep 2005, 01:37

No, but I know for a fact my LFS has used ridich on their clown loaches 2 times I have known of over 2 years since I have been gowing there. They have both survived.

Post by **Barbie** » 24 Sep 2005, 03:48

If you use it half strength, you can sometimes kill the ich and not kill the loaches with ridich. You CAN kill off the biobed of your tank using it though, which will in turn make life very difficult for all the fish involved. The fact that you got lucky treating your clown plecos once does not negate the fact that many people have had terrible losses with it. It's a very bad idea, IMO.

Copper safe can be very hard on plants, and is known to cause issues with the nervous system of some animals, humans included. I no longer use it either.

Honestly, the method I outlined works very well. NOTHING will help your fish stay healthy longer than good clean water, IMO.

Barbie

new2Lnumbers · Post by **new2Lnumbers** » 24 Sep 2005, 05:08

I am fairly new here but from what I can see laurab5 has an opinion on just about everything even if she has little or no experience with the subject at all.

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 24 Sep 2005, 14:07

I guess I did get lucky. But that is what I had. What should I use to treat plecos with ick Barbie.

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 24 Sep 2005, 14:20

Barbie wrote:

To stem the spread of the disease for now, pending the full information, I recommend a careful gravel vac'ing of the tank during a 30% water change, the addition of salt (table, aquarium, it doesn't matter, just not marine!) at one teaspoon per net gallon of water in the system, and raising the temperature of the tank to 84 degrees. If your other parameters are where they should be, repeating this treatment every day for 3 days, then continuing the daily changes and heat with no salt will usually rid you of the ich in about a week. There are products on the market like metronidazole that are also very effective in treating ich, but salt, heat and careful gravel vac'ing the tank can get you there in about the same amount of time, with less potential stress to the fish.

Barbie

LauraB5, is there something regarding Barbie's post above that still leaves you unsure about her stance on the treatment of the ich? If so, please help us help you by letting us know what your specific question is, and I'm sure Barbie is glad to advise....

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 24 Sep 2005, 14:25

Ok, I just read through it a few more times. I got it. I will not be posting oin this thread anymore.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 25 Sep 2005, 16:05

I'm so sorry for your loss, Mells.

I had a horrific outbreak of Ick when I started out in the hobby about 3-4 years ago and I knew zero. I knew nothing about purchasing fish(I don't know much more now) and even less about treating illness in fish. I did learn a little from that scary experience. I managed to save some Cories, but they suffered tremendously. I had to ask for a lot of help. It's not an illness to be taken lightly, due to the side effects of the medicines, as well stated by Barbie.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, anybody. I believe Ick has a lifecycle. The treatment of Ick depends on knowing the timing of this lifecycle. If you can get on top of this cycle, you can get rid of the disease. I'm having trouble finding the website where I found this information. Is my info correct?

Fish Soup · Post by **Fish Soup** » 25 Sep 2005, 17:01

I've had two outbreaks in the last 2 years. Both caught in QT. The salt/heat/gravel vac method that Barbie outlined was used both times. The first was a tank of Tetras I bought as dithers, the second came in with my L183s. Lost a total of two (out of about 30) Cardinal Tetras.

I do recommend keeping the water salted for about three weeks after the last spot drops. This ensures that all hits the free swimming stage and is killed. The warmer the water the faster the lifecycle. Three weeks at 84 to 86 is 100% effective. I weigh rather than measure the dose. The size of the crystals makes a huge difference in the true amount of salt in a teaspoon. 76 grams per 10 gallons worked for me.

The life cycle and several treatments are detailed here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquest ... fldAuto=32

Hope it helps.

Don

catfishgrrl · Post by **catfishgrrl** » 25 Sep 2005, 20:42

My clown loaches got ich shortly after I bought them. I treated them with Ick Guard II by Jungle Labs (http://www.junglelabs.com).
It's labeled for "scaleless fish."
My lot of four clowns all came through, even the wee little baby. I caught it pretty early though.
I did 10% water changes (gravel vacuuming) twice a day and kept the water at 80 degress for 2 weeks. Salt was also added.
I used Melafix during all this.
I've also had to use Ick Guard II in my community tank once when I got hasty and didn't quarantine some plecos (gold nugget and farowella) as long as I should have.
Right when you think you'll never see ich again it pops up and says "Hey."

Good luck!

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 28 Sep 2005, 14:16

Trophont, Tomont and Theront. I bookmarked it. Thanks, Don.

I believe the Melafix is an "aftertreatment" to prevent secondary infections that may come due to lowered immunity. Barbie, what is your take on secondary infections? Is Melafix trying to sell more Melafix?

djw66 · Post by **djw66** » 28 Sep 2005, 20:34

bronzefry wrote:Trophont, Tomont and Theront. I bookmarked it. Thanks, Don.

I believe the Melafix is an "aftertreatment" to prevent secondary infections that may come due to lowered immunity. Barbie, what is your take on secondary infections? Is Melafix trying to sell more Melafix?

Amanda, Melafix is an extract from tea leaves that has anti-bacterial properties, well known in Asian literature. Pimafix, made from Indian Bay Leaves, is anti-fungal. I have both in my fish room, though, knock on wood, I've never had to battle disease in over 30 years, and yes, I've kept clown loaches, as well as six or seven of their Botia cousins.

Barbies' method of curing clown loaches is spot on, I've read about that before. I've also read about people using a marine water dip to cure ich; the fish can stand the osmotic change for a few minutes, the simpler pathogen can not. Marine hobbyists, me included, routinely dip new fish in freshwater for the same reason, before quarentine.

Dave

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 01 Oct 2005, 15:58

Dave,
Congrats on being disease free. Yes, Barbie's info is 100% correct.

Salt and temperature change, not medicine actually got rid of the problem. It took a lot of attention and counting of days, but it worked like a charm. That's when I started keeping a journal. It was the only way I could keep the information straight. At the time, I had one lifecycle overlapping another. It was gruesome and I was lucky so many survived. The only losses were the Boesemani Rainbows who carried the Ick. I also learned the value of the quarantine tank. Big time!

What confuses me though is I was warned about secondary infections due to Ick. I was warned by the internet store that helped me(they were excellent)and I see this on some medicine labels. Would secondary infections occur because of a weakened immune system?

Amanda

Post by **Barbie** » 01 Oct 2005, 18:00

Secondary infections would occur because of the damage to the slime coat and their skin. The small abrasians are open sites for infection to occur if their immune system is already not functioning at top levels due to stress. The optimal water quality also helps with that, IME, but Melafix and Pimafix are both touted as helpful methods. I don't have experience with them for this, so I didn't offer input, but I've been told they can effectively "help".

Barbie