Hemiloricaria eating fry after they are all hatched!

Vampire007 · Post by **Vampire007** » 26 Sep 2005, 14:14

They keep laying about 50 eggs and when they hatch I end up with zero fry. I tried removing the eggs but they fungus up and I ended up with 5 fry. I add drops for non-fungus (can't remember what it was called) and still fungused up with and airstone too! This time I left the eggs with them and when I checked on Saturday night there was about 20 fry in the far end of the tube where it is closed. Plus there were still about 30 eggs that were ready to hatch. It was late so I figured I would remove them the next morning, however when I got up they were all gone. I searched the whole tank (10 gallon) and found none.
I am not sure what type of hemiloricaria I have. I am presuming it is the male that stays in the tube with them and is eating them when they hatch. Also, it seems like it takes forever for the eggs to hatch. The temperature is around 73 degrees and it takes 5 - 7 days for them to hatch. Should I raise the temperature or is their normal time for hatching?
Any suggestions on what I can do?

Post by **Janne** » 26 Sep 2005, 21:20

This type of species takes long time to hatch...normally between 8-12 days depending on species, I have never seen a male eating either eggs or fry but when they hatch they are very soon free swimming and disapear from the cave...if the water is in good quality you find them high up at the sides of the tank where the water flow...if not they die fast and they are so small and hard to discover in the gravel.
It's hard to collect them after they have hatched...I usually move the eggs the day before I expect them to hatch, in that way the father have made most of the work and when it just is a day left they will not be attacked of fungus either if you put an airstone close to the eggs and have a good water.
If possible, use a rairing container hanging in the breedingtank with the same water the eggs are laid in.

Janne

Vampire007 · Post by **Vampire007** » 26 Sep 2005, 21:23

I will try waiting until then and move them to a container I will have hanging in the tank.
Thanks for the advice!

kyle · Post by **kyle** » 27 Sep 2005, 11:18

usually i just move the male in the tube (i pressume hes either breeding in a pvc pipe or bamboo).Just put both hands on either side of the tube and stop water from coming out and put in another tank.Raising the fry is another thing

kyle

Norman · Post by **Norman** » 27 Sep 2005, 12:06

Hi,

I let build a rairing container out of glas, which with-measures are nealy conform to the tube. Now I lead air through the tube, so insinde is a slow current.
Some days before hatching, I remove the tube with the clutch from the male and put it into the container.
The waterparameters are the same and the eggs are always surrounded by fresh and oxygenic water. This is the best way to get all the fry after hatching.

regards
Norman

Vampire007 · Post by **Vampire007** » 27 Sep 2005, 13:10

So Janne mentioned never seeing a male eating eggs or fry. Well last night I removed the filter, the two rocks & the ceramic tube and there was only sand in the tank. No fry and only the pair of fish. If they didn't eat them, then what happened to them? There were about 20 alive the night before and they were big enough that I could not miss them. A 10 gallon tank is not that big to search, especially when empty of rocks.
They have laid about 5 times every 4 weeks or so. My friend had them before me and had the same problem and the most he got was 9 of them. He suspected the male of eating them too! The only 5 I have are now about 1.5 inches and doing well on cucumber slices, flake food and algae wafers.
Thanks all for the great tips! I will try them all!

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 27 Sep 2005, 13:48

It's not uncommon for male Loricariids to eat the spawn if something is not quite right with the tank.

More than likely, the problem may be you! Too much disruption around a spawn (constantly peering into the brood cave, excessive movement around the tank, touching or moving the males chosen cave) will cause the male to eat the spawn. If they cannot defend the nest, they will not risk the loss of such an energetic expense (eggs, fry, time spent brooding) and will seek to recover as much of that investment by devouring the fry (reminds me of the Behavioral Ecology class I took several years ago). This rather than allow the spawn to get eaten by what they percieve as possible predators.

Not sure of your actions around the tank once you notice a spawn, but this is something to think about.

Vampire007 · Post by **Vampire007** » 27 Sep 2005, 14:25

I had thought it was that before and I only shine a flashlight in there when I am expecting them to hatch and that is only for a few seconds. I never go in and actually disrupt them by moving the cave and looking into it. I doubt if the flashlight bothers him enough to eat them.
Plus the time before this I didn't even do that. I just left them alone once I saw the eggs at the end of the tube. In about 8 days I notice he was away from the cave and then I check it out and found no fry and searched the whole tank and found no fry. It just looks like a few hours after they hatch he starts eating them.

Post by **Janne** » 27 Sep 2005, 19:32

Newly hatched fry that dies of species like Hemiancistrus, Sturisoma, Dekeyseria and species close related to these will shrink very fast and become almost invisible and after a few hours have bacterias. fungus or snails make them disappear...they are impossible to find in the gravel.

Many species there the male get disturbed eat the eggs...but I have not seen any of these done that, instead they usually get rid of the eggs thrue kicking them out of the cave.

The way Norman explain his rairing container and his way to hatch the eggs is absolutely the best way to save and care for the eggs and fry when it comes to Hemiloricaria, even if you take the male with you...he will not eat the eggs and he will most of the time continue to take care of them.

Janne