how many catfish can I safely have in a 4ft tank?

NUTOI · Post by **NUTOI** » 18 Aug 2005, 12:40

My tank about 6 weeks old and nearly finished cycling has at present 2 small bristlenose ,1 bronze cory,platies,gouramis(2 x dwarf neon,2x blue,1 x platinium, 1x pearl,1 x indian banded)I black moor and I fantail goldfish,4 head & tail light tetras,.I had two bronze catfish,but "kitty" the smaller one died today ,she had no outward signs of whitespot but was lethargic and had been sitting on top of the filter alot and had no appetite.The cories were the first fish I bought and I really adore them so this was very sad but.I didn't know anything when I started so I got a fantastic tank filled it with great fish then learnt the hard way about whitespot and cycling etc,I lost 20 neons in the process,Anyway All seems well now,except that I am concerned the remaining cory "puss" may get lonely,so I am wondering how mant friends should I get for him ?,should they all be bronze or will he mingle with albino cories?how can I tell if "puss" is a he or a she?is two bristlenose catfish enough or do they like to live in groups like the bronze catfish??

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 Aug 2005, 13:19

By the sounds of things, you may have a few too many fish in the tank at the moment, as when you're cycling the tank, you should only have a few, maybe 6 or so. But not much we can do about it.

When you say it's "Nearly finished cycling", what method are you measuring this by? What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? These measurements will both help analyze if the levels were contributing to the death of your cory, and tell us if your tank is getting close to finish cycling.

Ok, then to answer your questions:
1. Bronze cories will go well with any other cory that has the same water parameter requirements, which is probably just about any "common" cory. Obviously, if you want to breed them, you'll want to add a few of the same kind, so that they aren't tempted to cross with another specie and give you a hybrid [we aren't keen on hybrids in the catfish world]. It's a good idea to have at least 3-4 corys in a group, preferrably more. They are shoaling fish, and like to swim together.

By the way, albino cory's are most commonly of two species, either {most common} or . Bronze cory is the common name for Corydoras Aeneus, so it's highly likely that an Albino will be the same specie as your bronze one. Obviously, albinism is a genetical defect that CAN occur in just about any animal, and not at all limited to any particular specie of corydoras, so technically an albino cory _COULD_ be any specie, but it's very likely that the albino's you find in your local shop is C. Aeneus.

2. Bristlenoses aren't really group fish. They are definitely territorial, especially the males. You can keep them singly or in small groups, but don't expect them to swim together like cory's do.

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Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 18 Aug 2005, 15:11

It sounds as if this tank is heavy on Gouramis (7?). Gouramis tend towards higher temperatures(please correct me if I'm wrong anybody). The (2) Goldfish will need much lower temperatures. Also, they can eventually grow to 8" in size and produce a lot of waste. As Mats stated, you need 6 or so of the Cories. Cories need other Cories, preferrably other Aeneus, if you can.

It sounds as if you may have 2 or 3 tanks worth of fish in one tank. The Gouramis alone with the Bristlenose will fill the 48" tank. How many Platies do you have? I've kept two Platies, six small Tetras and four Aeneus Cories in a 29 gallon tank. How large are the Goldfish at this time? This could be a third tank. Does anybody else have any other ideas?

drpleco · Post by **drpleco** » 18 Aug 2005, 16:06

goldfish definitely need their own tank. they need different kinds of food, temps, etc. I would agree that you're overstocked, but you already knew that.

I would decide what fish you REALLY want to keep and return the rest. You'll thank yourself in the long run and will spend much less time/money rehabilitating sick and dying fish.

NUTOI · Post by **NUTOI** » 18 Aug 2005, 22:26

Thanks for all the good advice I just wish the guys at the petshop had a clue when they sold me the fish,All the fish are babies at the moment so it doesn't appear overstocked at present.I have decided to go with your ideas,I will get another tank set it up and move the goldfish to it,we have a goldfish pond but I really want to have some inside,what other fish like cold water that I could put in with them?I really like cories and gouramis so I can see I am going to end up with more tanks,can I have a few maybe 6 cories in a 4ft tank with say to pairs of gourami?,that way I could set up a few tanks with various groups of cories(I like panda cories and tiger cories)and varoius gouramis so the related types don't hybridize?is there an ideal no of male to female to keep together and how do I tell them apart?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 19 Aug 2005, 08:43

I _TOO_ wish that most LFS would be good in advicing customers on stocking levels, mixes of species that go well together, etc.

You can have cories in a cool-ish water, such as 20-22'C, which is also good tempreature for most (fancy)goldfish.

You can have some cories with gouramis, depending on what temperature you keep the gouramies. For instance are good with higher temperatures. Again, as I said in a previous post, you can look at all the cory species and pick ones that suit your temeperatures in different tanks. [You can get to the corydoras species list by clikcing on the above link for C. Sterbai, and then clicking on the "Corydoras" link at the heading of the description for the Sterbai's].

Cory's go well with most other fish, as long as they are in the right temperature range, aside from ones that are too aggressive (such as rift-lake cichlids), or that grow so big that the cories become a suitable size snack. None of the fish you've mentionend (aside from perhaps GIANT gourami's, which wouldn't have anything to do in a 4ft tank, more like 8-10ft).

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Mats

NUTOI · Post by **NUTOI** » 19 Aug 2005, 09:46

thanks again,I'm full of questions today so here is another one,can you mix little and big catfish varieties as long as they are all vegetarians or will this still cause problems over territory?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 19 Aug 2005, 10:08

Mixing fish (not just catfish) isn't only about whether they are vegetarians or not, but also how territorial they are.

There are plenty of catfish that will quite nicely shoal together in big or small groups, whilst there are many others that will fight 'til death if you put them together in a tank. In some cases, they are fine if you have several, but keeping two together will not work. To be more precise, I'd need to know which species your thinking of mixing (or you can look in the cat-elog on this site yourself, it generally describes the fish's behaviour and whether it's territorial, likes to be in a group or can be kept singly, etc). [Obviously, it's a good idea if you start by making a short-list of fish that you'd like to keep, that are available to you, etc. Then look them up in the cat-elog, as it takes a fair while to go through all the 1300 or so species there are in the cat-elog].

As a general rule, all Cory's will go well with any fish that don't see them as snacks or punch-bags.

Pleco's, which is another common aquatic catfish, are generally territorial, and will not like others in it's own space. Give them plenty of space and a lot of hiding places, then you can keep more than two in a large-ish tank. I've got:
2 ,
2
3
5
all in one tank. That tank is 5ft(L) x 20"(W) x 24"(H), and holds 400 liter of water.

In the same tank are also 6 and 5 . That's all of the catfish that are in the tank.

There is a lot of pottery, rocks, slate, bamboo caves and some plants in the tank. This gives the fish a lot of "privacy", whilst still having enough space to swim about.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the actual size of your tank. We know it's 4ft long, but there are several shapes of 4ft tanks. Most commonly they are about a foot wide and about 16 inches high, but for example Juwel has one that is the same dimensions as mine but a foot shorter. The height and width of the make makes some difference on how much fish you can have in it.

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Mats

Beersnob · Post by **Beersnob** » 31 Aug 2005, 02:08

Mats,

You could include some Natives. These include minnows, shiners, and darters as long as there are no restrictions for the species (endangered, etc..). Other fish that seem to do well in a cool tank are Bearded Cories (the genus changed so they are not considered in the family corydoras anymore - but you can find them in the Catelog undet the common name bearded cory. They do not like temperatures much above 73F and will die at 75F.

I have some American Killifish (North) that seem to do well along with Bristlenoses, Pictus, synodontus eupterus, and some Goodeids.

I hope this helps,

Scott

NUTOI · Post by **NUTOI** » 31 Aug 2005, 05:09

well the inhabitants of my tank have changed slightly since my last post I now have 2 albino cories,2 bronze cories,1 peppered cory &2 tiny bristlenoses that are only staying until there new 4ft tank has fished cycling and 2 small bristlenoses,The fantail goldfish has gone to live in the tub/pond with the other fantail and the 2 cometes ,But Shadow the black moor is still in the inside tank as are all the gouramis,guppies a couple platies,2 apple snails and some female bettas,During our cycling and whitespot problem the neon all died.But everyone else came through prettym much unscathed.Shadow will be moving to his own 2ft tank as soon as I get one as will the guppies and platies,So it is just a matter of setting up and cycling the new tanks and then stocking them properly ,with the knowledge gained from this forum.I wish lfs were as honest and helpful as you guys it would have saved me alot of heartache.We are going to set up some vivariums for the bettas as I always feel sorry for lone bettas in little jam jars as I want to give some a betta quality of life.I plan to get 2 more cories so my cories can live in a school of 6 and get a few peppered for the lonely little one when he moves into his new 4ft tank with the tiny bristlenoses.So it is an addiction we started with one 6ft tank and now have a 6ft,2 x 4ft and 4 new little tanks for bettas oh and the bathtub pond!Wow better get a bigger shed!

Beersnob · Post by **Beersnob** » 01 Sep 2005, 03:55

Ahh..isn't MTS a wonderful syndrome...And if you have catfish it grows rapidlyu!!!!!!!

That's Multiple Tank Syndrome!!!!

Starsky · Post by **Starsky** » 05 Sep 2005, 06:12

MTS... Got a nice ring to it.

Gotta admit, with the sheer number of corydoras species (natural ones) going around and having bitten by the "collecting bug", it's pretty predictable that I'd get MTS sooner or later.