hybridization b/w elegans group species

[bedwetter]

I have a trio of C. napoensis housed with 2 females of another elegans group species (I have been told they are an undescribed species). Anyway, the napoensis are looking like they might spawn soon - one ofthe females is incredibly fat. Will the elegans group species hybidize? If so, should I move the other species into another tank?

thanks in advance

[corybreed]

The elegans can hybridize with the napoensis. I would separate the two species if you want to breed the napoensis. As you are interested in breeding corys it is better to keep species tanks for this purpose.

Mark

[Starsky]

The elegans can hybridize with the napoensis. I would separate the two species if you want to breed the napoensis. As you are interested in breeding corys it is better to keep species tanks for this purpose.

Mark

This is such an eye-opener. I have not thought about hybridization among cories. I just assumed they'd stick to their own kind. I would definitely be reading up on this. Thanks, Mark. This is really a terrific forum.

[MatsP]

This is such an eye-opener. I have not thought about hybridization among cories. I just assumed they'd stick to their own kind. I would definitely be reading up on this. Thanks, Mark. This is really a terrific forum.

They may well stick to their own kind, but if you have several kinds in the same tank, they may also get into a "group-sex" situation where everyone has a go with each other, and you get all sorts of "mongrels". Better to keep them one specie per tank, at least if you want to breed them.

--
Mats

[Starsky]

Thanks for the tip, Mats. The idea of mongrels does sound a bit disturbing. I am already thinking of getting new tanks over the weekend. Don't want my caudimaculatus and schwartzi to get crazy ideas.

[mummymonkey]

This fish is an axelrodi x metae.

[MatsP]

That's a nice looking fish, but we don't really need any more varieties of cory, there's plenty of already existing varieties, and they are difficult enough to tell apart in some cases, without having mixed species in the equation.

--
Mats

[mummymonkey]

That's a nice looking fish, but we don't really need any more varieties of cory, there's plenty of already existing varieties, and they are difficult enough to tell apart in some cases, without having mixed species in the equation.

--
Mats

It was an accident.

[MatsP]

It was an accident.

Yes, and that's the reason we shouldn't keep different species of cory's in the same tank. Which is the reason I posted on this thread in the first place. Accidents happen, but in this case they can be prevented pretty easily... Just don't have mixed species of corydoras in the tank!

--
Mats

[Coryman]

I've not made coment in this thread, mainly because I do get a little passionate on the subject of hybridisation. But I feel a few things need saying from a front line view instead of just theorising. I have been keeping and breeding Corys and related species for over 30 years and have never experienced and hybridising at all, and yes in several tank I do keep several species together. Keeping in the context of the topic I do have a group of C. elegans, a group of C. napoensis and a group of an undescribed 'elegans' species all in the same tank, also there are a further four speces in there. The undescribed 'elegans' species usually spawn after a 50% water change and none of the other species take any interest at all. So I would say with confidence that as long as there are males and females of both species your C. napoensis and C. elegans will NOT interbreed.

We all know that crossbreeding does occur, but there are relatively few species that are suseptable and these are usually with species that are prety much isolated in the wild and the genetic barriers of these species are not as strong as with species that share the same habitat with others. From what I have seen and read these crossbreedings happen when there are only a few specimens of different species kept together. I normally buy my Corys in groups of six or more and I believe this is why I don't see any cross breeding.

Ian

[MatsP]

Thanks Ian for the explanation.

I do not have 30 years experience in breeding fish, never mind any particular genus or family. [I have kept fish for almost 20 years in total, with about a ten year gap until fairly recently].

So, what you're saying is that with a few exceptions, as long as you keep a decent size group of the same specie, other species are unlikely to interbred with this specie.

--
Mats

[mummymonkey]

It was an accident.

Yes, and that's the reason we shouldn't keep different species of cory's in the same tank. Which is the reason I posted on this thread in the first place. Accidents happen, but in this case they can be prevented pretty easily... Just don't have mixed species of corydoras in the tank!

--
Mats

I think that's a worthy aim but unrealistic for most people. If I were to restrict my tanks to single species I would only be able to keep 2 or 3. I keep several species in a couple of tanks. When I want to try and breed them they go into their own smaller tank. I think this is reasonable. Any eggs that appear in the larger tank are left to be eaten.

These fish came from a friend who has a tank with both axelrodi and metae. The fry appeared in the main tank and seemed to be pure metae so he let them be. As they grew, some began to show axelrodi type markings as in the photograph. They now reside in a planted tank of another friend. They're not doing any harm by just scooting around a display tank.

[bedwetter]

mummymonkey, I think thats a good comprimise. I have decided to follow your lead and move the napoensis into their own tank for breeding. Better safe than sorry!
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a big group of either the napoensis or the other elegans-grp species because they both came in as contaminants in a shipment of delphax.

thanks everyone for the comments. Now if I could only get that fat female napoensis to lay some bloody eggs!

jeff

[catfish_cz]

Crossbreeding of Corydoras

in the nature:

C. leopardus x C. ambiacus


in the captivity:

C. adolfoi x C. caudimaculatus
C. adolfoi x C. gossei
C. adolfoi x C. melini
C. araguaiaensis x C. axelrodi
C. arcuatus x C. metae
C. axelrodi x C. adolfoi
C. axelrodi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. adolfoi
C. burgessi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. axelrodi
C. davidsandsi x C. adolfoi
C. davidsandsi x C. burgessi
C. davidsandsi x C. panda
C. oiapoquensis x C. panda
C. paleatus (albín) x C. melanotaenia
C. panda x C. caudimaculatus
C. sterbai x C. haraldschultzi

And maybe this (?):

C. axelrodi - C. loxozonus - C. melini
C. trilineatus x C. metae


It is better to keep them separately.

[Starsky]

This list is very helpful. I was supposed to ask about this. thanks, catfish_cz!

[Coryologist]

Crossbreeding of Corydoras

in the nature:

C. leopardus x C. ambiacus


in the captivity:

C. adolfoi x C. caudimaculatus

- Quote edited by Guppyman®

And maybe this (?):

C. axelrodi - C. loxozonus - C. melini
C. trilineatus x C. metae


It is better to keep them separately.

Hi. Would you mind stating the source for this list. TYVM. - Frank

[catfish_cz]

This book:

http://www.akvarista.cz/web/knihy/genpi ... hanel1.jpg

"Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živočichů (I. obecná část)"

Published: Charles University, Prague, Karolinum ,2002
Author: RNDr. Lubomír HANEL, CSc (Department of Biology, Faculty of Education, Charles University)

ISBN: 80-24-0413-2
Pages: 240
Format: 210 x 297 mm

[Coryologist]

This book: "Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živo?ich? (I. obecná ?ást)" - Quote edited by Guppyman®

Thank you. Now, I will need to "brush up" on my Czech. An english translation of the title would, too, be greatly appreciated. - Frank

[catfish_cz]

Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živočichů (I. obecná část)
is in English "Biology and keeping/breeding of water animals (first part)".

The word "akvaristika" means keeeping and breeding of water animals and plants in aquarium.

Which word is used in English language for this hobby?

[mummymonkey]

Akvaristika - Biologie a chov vodních živočichů (I. obecná část)
is in English "Biology and keeping/breeding of water animals (first part)".

The word "akvaristika" means keeeping and breeding of water animals and plants in aquarium.

Which word is used in English language for this hobby?

Aquaculture would be close.

[corydorus]

How about in the captivity:

C. adolfoi x C. duplicareus ?

- Dennis Wang

Crossbreeding of Corydoras

in the nature:

C. leopardus x C. ambiacus


in the captivity:

C. adolfoi x C. caudimaculatus
C. adolfoi x C. gossei
C. adolfoi x C. melini
C. araguaiaensis x C. axelrodi
C. arcuatus x C. metae
C. axelrodi x C. adolfoi
C. axelrodi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. adolfoi
C. burgessi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. axelrodi
C. davidsandsi x C. adolfoi
C. davidsandsi x C. burgessi
C. davidsandsi x C. panda
C. oiapoquensis x C. panda
C. paleatus (albín) x C. melanotaenia
C. panda x C. caudimaculatus
C. sterbai x C. haraldschultzi

And maybe this (?):

C. axelrodi - C. loxozonus - C. melini
C. trilineatus x C. metae


It is better to keep them separately.

[Coryman]

catfish_cz

C. adolfoi x C. caudimaculatus XXX
C. adolfoi x C. gossei XXX
C. adolfoi x C. melini XXX
C. araguaiaensis x C. axelrodi XXX
C. arcuatus x C. metae
C. axelrodi x C. adolfoi XXX
C. axelrodi x C. metae
C. burgessi x C. adolfoi
C. burgessi x C. metae XXX
C. burgessi x C. axelrodi XXX
C. davidsandsi x C. adolfoi
C. davidsandsi x C. burgessi
C. davidsandsi x C. panda XXX
C. oiapoquensis x C. panda XXX
C. paleatus (albín) x C. melanotaenia XXX
C. panda x C. caudimaculatus XXX
C. sterbai x C. haraldschultzi

Some of the listed mating species cannot possibly be natural partners in the wild, because they just do not live in the same areas, the only way these matches can be achieved is with mans assistance or even insistence. I hear of occasional crosses happening where people have groups of single species specimens, but most of the records of so called natural hybridising seem to emanate from the Czech Republic. At this moment in time I have four tanks each contain groups (5 -8 specimens) of at least 5 species. most have been together for at least 18 months and I have yet to have any hybridising take place, several of these groups spawn on a regular basis and produce pure species. I would therefore challenge the term Natural hybrids". I am sure if I kept 6 males of one species and 4 females of another and put them through a conditioning regime they would breed but that could not under any circumstances be considered as a natural mating.

Ian

[MatsP]

Ian,

Isn't that why the long list of species is headlined "In captivity"?

I agree with your statement, I just think that the original poster also agrees with it, and I sort of think that your post is concerning something we all agree with, although the wording is such that you seem to disagree with something. Sorry, don't mean to upset anyone, just feel a bit like someone (Ian or me?) missed something...

--
Mats

[catfish_cz]

To Coryman: I wrote that in the nature is it: C. leopardus x C. ambiacus. Other Corydoras on my list are crossbreeded in aquarium.

To corydorus: I have never heard about crossbreeding of C.adolfoi x C.duplicareus.

PS: Sorry, I am not interested in Corydoras. I try to breed Megalechis, Heteropneustes, Loricariidae, etc.






my new one day old Megalechis

[Coryman]

my apologies, I jumped in a little too quickly on the list of hybrid paring without reading the "In Captivity" title and also for perpetuating the drift away from the original topic by bedwetter. However my views on hybridising remain the same.

Ian

[Supercorygirl]

Even though this is an old thread, I must say thank you. I have been driving myself crazy trying to prevent hybridization in my cory collection. Most informative and wondering if any new ones added to the list ?

[cinnamonsticks]

I currently have in one tank...

6 C. Trilineatus (1 year + in tank)
4 C. Paleatus (5 months in tank)
1 CW023 (1 year in tank)
1 CW041 (4 months in tank)

The C. Trilineatus are only interested in each other. I did have some C. Aeneus that would follow the C. Trilineatus and eat their eggs. They were evicted to another tank shortly after that. The C. Trilineatus do not eat their own eggs, and I don't believe they eat anyone elses eggs. These eggs are laid in current on plants, rarely on glass. She targets java moss, hair algae, and crypts.

The C. Paleatus are exceptionally longing for procreation and the males will "mount" both sexes of C. Trilineatus and even the C. Hasbrosus. I am not sure if the C. Paleatus have "mounted" the CWs. The "mounting" does not last longer than a second, the male must realize that he chose the wrong fish. The C. Paleatus will eat their own eggs. This female places her eggs on glass only, usually behind the heater, behind plants, behind tiles, and if in the open usually up high. I have been 100% accurate when guessing what kind of cory eggs I am pulling.

The CW023 plays with the C. Trilineatus and gets excited with them. I don't believe he has mated.

The CW041 is young yet and minds his own business.

I don't have the longevity of experience, but I do sit and observe the fish for HOURS upon HOURS.

[Eggheadfish]

Hi,
I know this is an old thread, but I can confirm that metae can cross breed and produce fry with trilineatus.
I had a group of 7 trils and 2 metae in the same tank, never bothered with each other, and the trilineatus bred on occasion.
I added 3 more metae (finally found some!), and they are all females. A week later, I saw them actively spawning together - male tril and one of the new metae females. I collected the eggs and hatched them out (ONLY to confirm it could be done, don't see any information on it anywhere besides this thread - specimens will never leave my tank or be bred further, and are housed separately from the parent groups). I currently have 12 fry that are three days old. Curious to see what kind of pattern develops.

[Narwhal72]

I want to add another one to the list.

Corydoras metae x Corydoras weitzmani can successfully hybridize. I have a nice little Weitzmetae I just found in a holding tank.

Andy

[Waldharjaz]

Local fish shop had a customer report a

C. sterbai x C. paleatus hybrid

Probably very rare, but just thought Id post it here.