Oxydator vs. powerhead

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 03 Mar 2003, 09:38

I just saw a thing called a Oxydator for sale at a germans webshop. It supposedly generates more oxygen for the water, which is a thing that most pleco-people wants. The standard way of getting much oxygen is running a powerhead or a strong filter in the water surface, but i was wondering, what do you think of using a "normal" filter and stuff an oxydator in the tank.

I am aware of the fact that plecs acctually live in strong currents, but i thought this could make way for nice combinations between fish like plecs and discus, and then both "groups" would be happy, the discus wont be stuck to the side of the tank by a powerhead, and the plecs will have enough oxygen.

Some info about it:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... CatId=5505

The company tha manufactures it:
http://www.oxydator.de

A german webshop that sells them (se Technical equipment)
http://www.aquaristic.net

Post by **Dinyar** » 03 Mar 2003, 14:59

People claim to successfully keep fish with high O2 requirements in heavily planted tanks (where the plants create high O2 levels) that have little or no current. I think in principle an oxydator would be OK, if you could be assured of stable and reliable function.

Otoh, why not just use a large airstone? It raises O2 levels cheaply and reliably without generating substantial current.

Dinyar

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 03 Mar 2003, 17:34

Actually, afaik, airstones generate minimally extra oxygen for the water. I'm not sure wheter you know this or not, but oxygen goes innto the water at the surface so the stronger the surface-movement is, the more oxygen goes innto the water. The bubles from an airstone are far to little in contact with the water to make som difference in the O2 content.

Post by **Silurus** » 03 Mar 2003, 17:51

Seems like this Oxydator thing is doing the same thing as an airstone. Only instead of air, it's bubbling pure oxygen into the water.
Not very useful, if you ask me.

jscoggs27 · Post by **jscoggs27** » 03 Mar 2003, 18:17

airstones do work. one they agitate the surface allowing a higher surface area than you would with a normal flat surface. Two, the bubbles are themselves in contact with water and an interaction occurs where oxygen in the bubbles is absorbed. In either case surface area of water to air interaction is increased.

jason

Post by **Dinyar** » 03 Mar 2003, 19:53

Both common sense and experience suggest that they do have SOME effect, even if the effect is not a very dramatic one.

Here's an experiment for you: put two fish of the same species (lacking the ability to breath surface O2) in two small fishtanks. Add an airstone to one of the two tanks (no other form of aeration or water movement in either). Now see which fish suffocates first.

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 03 Mar 2003, 20:02

Right. I still question the utility of the Oxydator over an airstone, though. I don't see the point of bubbling pure oxygen as opposed to the much cheaper alternative of bubbling air through the water.
Coomon sense dictates that only so much oxygen can dissolve in water at a given temperature, and I don't think bubbling pure oxygen will significantly increase the amount of oxygen in the water as opposed to bubbling air.

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 03 Mar 2003, 21:35

What about trasporting fish ? would this not help?

jscoggs27 · Post by **jscoggs27** » 03 Mar 2003, 21:53

Bubbling pure oxygen is going to have a slightly better effect than normal air, but I think the cost of using pure oxygen probably isnt worth the extra o2 content in the water. You could always use two airstones. or position filter outlet across the surface, or use a vortex type aerator on the filter oulet. Either way the problem is only to increase the air to water interaction by increasing available surface area.
Plants as stated earlier help, but rotting vegetation of any sort will probably suck up any benefit.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 03 Mar 2003, 22:32

Silurus wrote:Seems like this Oxydator thing is doing the same thing as an airstone. Only instead of air, it's bubbling pure oxygen into the water.
Not very useful, if you ask me.

Larry Vires reported on a huge increase in spawning frequency when using a home -made version of the Oxydator, the details of which can be found in a book edited by Ad Konings (Cichlid Handbook?). It's basically a Hydrogen Peroxide catalytic reactor.
They really do boost the Oxygen content of the water above what any airstone can do, in fact beyond what anything but a pressure contact vessel can achieve.
Worth looking at.

polkadot · Post by **polkadot** » 04 Mar 2003, 04:25

From what I know oxygen can only be dissolve at the water surface, so the more agitation at the surface, the better it is for oxygen to be dissolve. The use of a surface skimmer can help a lot as it clears the layer of food oil or excessive protein which actually hinders oxygen to be dissolved.

Bathos · Post by **Bathos** » 04 Mar 2003, 14:40

that seems counter intuative to me. why is it only absorbed at the surface, and not on the surfaces of the bubbles going up from the air stone as well? i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just curious.
-Liz

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 04 Mar 2003, 17:36

of course oxygen can be dissolved anywhere in the water for example on the leafs of the plants its just how you get the O2 into the water. Using pure oxygen sounds like a better chance to get more into the water than using air which only contains around 20%...have no clue how much the oxygenator produces in the same timespan compared to an airstone though.

The problem with a heavily planted tank is of course that the co2 level rises into the sky at night as they use up the oxygen at night.

thefishdaddy · Post by **thefishdaddy** » 04 Mar 2003, 20:55

The smaller the bubbles the more surface area it will have per CFM produced by your airpump, and the slower it will rise to the top of the tank. This will improve the contact time between air in the bubble and water that surrounds it....
It is the same principle as CO2 diffusers for planted tank.....
It is the same principle as fluidized bed filter where the smaller sand the more surface area....
The drawback when producing small bubbles is it creates too much back pressure on your air pump that could cause premature damage to its diaphram and also you need to clean the airstone or replace wooden airstone on a regular bases.....
(Shouldnt it be called an air wood coz its made out of wood)

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 04 Mar 2003, 22:30

@daddy i dont use wooden "stones" as most of mine are made out of ceramic

polkadot · Post by **polkadot** » 05 Mar 2003, 05:07

Just curious whether a long air curtain which can make lots of bubbles but little current or big bubbles with strong current will give better oxygen in the tank?

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 05 Mar 2003, 13:23

i think smb mentioned it allready, the smaller the bubbles the more reaction-surface they have and the slower they rise the more oxygen can be dissolved on the way up..

pezgato · Post by **pezgato** » 12 Jun 2003, 10:13

Konig, did you buy the oxidator?
Any new experience with it?
Thanks.

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 12 Jun 2003, 12:38

No, I didn't.

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 12 Jun 2003, 22:02

Silurus wrote:Right. I still question the utility of the Oxydator over an airstone, though. I don't see the point of bubbling pure oxygen as opposed to the much cheaper alternative of bubbling air through the water.
.

Hi,
but this is one advantage of the oxydator. No bubbles, no current, in some tanks (e.g. bubble-nest) you donÂ´t like any current. The oxydator does not make any bubbles, the water of the tank reacts in the vessel with the H2O2.
A second advantage is, that the oxydator increases the redox-potential, which decreases algae.
I have used Oxydators, but today I prefer bubble-stones, because they are easier to handle, there is no danger of H2O2 (bleaching) and I donÂ´t really care about plants.
If you dung CO2, a bubble stone is not senseful un your tank, e.g.