emergency Brislenose problem

Nik_Boyd · Post by **Nik_Boyd** » 20 May 2005, 00:14

I bought two bristlenose catfish todayone male and one female. I also bought a beta. The female is doing great and is really active but my male seems to have died. He was fine when we bought him and was moving around at first. I've just done water tests and they have shown as follows -

ammonia - 0
PH - 7.2/7.4
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 5
phosphate - 0.25
temperature - 24.5 deg. C

the tank is fully cycled and already contained 10 cardinal tetra, all of which are disease free and have been in the tank for a week already. The tank uses an eheim 2128 thermo filter running along with the internal juwel filter (rio 180) and a JBL Co2 unit. I can't understand what could have killed it, certainly as the female from same stock is totally fine.

Both fish (male and female) were bagged together in the shop, and floated for about 3/4 of an hour, gradually changing water in the bag before release. The male is (or was) about 3 1/2 - 4' and a strong looking fish. Upon release the male stayed in the middle of the tank at the front, in an exposed area. for the most part it was still but moved around a little, and looked to be eating. The female hid under a piece of bogwood straight away, and moved a little but since the tank light has been turned off she has been cleaning away.

Can anyone suggest anything that could have happened?

thanks

Nik

ps. if you need any more details (don't think I've left much out) please contact me

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 20 May 2005, 03:12

I had the same thing happen with a BN I brought home a couple weeks ago. Seems like there's been a couple other recent threads with similar problems... and my trusted LFS was actually having the same problem with their last batch of BN's... not saying it's all related, but seems kinda odd...

I do know that the BN and the betta really want different things. The BN wants cooler, faster moving water with lots of aeration. Betta wants higher temps with less water movement. So they might need separate spaces...

Just some thoughts,
Jen

irene0100 · Post by **irene0100** » 20 May 2005, 09:25

sorry about your loss,
I would guess it was shock of moving from the shop to your tank.
maybe your tank is a little cold, common BNs like it around 27 degrees to be comfortable.

Nik_Boyd · Post by **Nik_Boyd** » 20 May 2005, 10:43

thanks for the replies...

The cat-e-log info has BN;s temperature range at 22 - 24 deg c, thats why I kept it down a much as I could...and the female seems to be fine still. is this a mistake in the cat-e-log? Just went down to look and she was cleaning leaves.

I'm aware of the potential problems with the Betta, and if anthing expected problems with it rather than anything else, but it seems fine. The filter outlets on my tank are positioned so that there are areas of still water, as well as current, and the Betta seems to have learnt which end to stay at. I think having fairly tall plants (quite a lot of amazon swords) helps give it a fair bit of shelter too.

Shock or internal injuries are about the only thing anyone can come up with so far.

Nik_Boyd · Post by **Nik_Boyd** » 20 May 2005, 11:22

my girlfriend just spoke to the LFS that we got him from, and they are going to replace him, and have asked us to take a water sample as well just so they can check it, which is all good.

Also, they are going to have a look at the body and see if they can identify any problems.

Post by **Shane** » 20 May 2005, 13:34

Nik,
27 is much too high of a temperature for most "common" Ancistrus. The term "common bushynose" appears to encompass at least two, and possibly more, spp or even combination of spp. just as "common pleco" encompasses about a half dozen spp. I am not saying that they can not adapt to 27C, but it is much warmer than anything they would live in in the wild.
The bottom line is that when you buy a fish, much like a used car, you have no idea what state it is in when you get it and sometimes the fish's time was up before it ever left the store. It may not have been your fault at all. My biggest piece of advice, however, is quarentine, quarentine, quarentine. If you do that alone you will solve 90 percent of your fish health problems.
-Shane

Nik_Boyd · Post by **Nik_Boyd** » 20 May 2005, 13:46

thanks very much for clarifying that Shane, will keep the temperature as it is.

Just got home from the LFS, they looked at the fish and couldn't find any visible reason why it would have died, tested out water as well and found it was perfect. They've replaced it free of charge, and the new fish it currently being floated, I'll keep you updated as to how its doing.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 20 May 2005, 21:07

Nik,
I'm very sorry for your loss.

Shane's giving you great advice there. We've all had this happen and the first thing we tend to do is blame ourselves. If the LFS has gotten these fish through an importer, there's no way of knowing what it's been through: the climate changes, the water chemistry changes, etc.

One thing I've learned(the hard way)is to ask the LFS what their water parameters are when purchasing, where the fish came from and when they arrived at the store. If they don't know(because Ralphie is too busy worrying about electronic security tags for the African Gray Parrots and Chihuahuas.

), I won't purchase. If they half-try to accommodate, I'm okay. If there's no effort or give me blank stare or ask me to purchase a $2,000 bird, forget it. (I'm amazed at the saline content at some stores, especially if they sell saltwater fish, too.

)

Let us know how you do. This has happened to all of us.

Nik_Boyd · Post by **Nik_Boyd** » 21 May 2005, 18:31

the LFS water params are very similar to mine, identical in all ways that I can test I think.

The new BN is doing fine, has established a hiding place under a piece of bogwood, and started to dig himself a bigger hole

irene0100 · Post by **irene0100** » 21 May 2005, 21:18

interesting what you suggest about temp, Shane.

I have a pair of common BNs which I had kept at the cooler temp PC says but they were shy and not breeding, so I read lots of different articles and found many owners recommended a higher temperature.
such as
[url]http://www.plecos.com/art_wiiliam_shreves.php[/url]
where it says "The temperature should be anywhere from seventy-five to eighty degrees Fahrenheit. "
or

[url]http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/html ... %20species[/url]

where she suggests 26 C.

and
[url]http://www.plecofanatics.com/forum/show ... php?t=9290[/url]
where they are kept at 80 F.

anyway after reseach and chat rooms etc I slowly increased the temp in my tank to 27 and hey-presto they spawned.

but now perhaps I should lower it a couple of degress ?
I expect you have more experience than me as I fairly new, but learning slowly.

Post by **Shane** » 22 May 2005, 01:17

Irene,
Truth be told it is hard to suggest a general temperature for Ancistrus. While many genera live in a certain environment (like Farlowella or Chaetostoma for example) Ancistrus spp. are found in seemingly every environment you can think of from clear mountain streams to slow moving blackwater rivers. As a rule of thumb, the brown and gray spp. are from piedmont streams and the black with white spots spp. are found in the lowlands. A. triradiatus (which is one of the "common bushynose" spp.) are collected near Villavicencio, Colombia in piedmont streams that are kept fairly cool by the runoff from the Andes. I guess the bottom line is that you should stick with what experimentation shows works best for you. 27C is about 82F. At that temperature your tank is still warmer than the temps in the links you provided. If what you are doing works, do not feel the need to change things no matter what anyone else (myself included) says.
-Shane