Plecos and copper

sjogren1 · Post by **sjogren1** » 30 Apr 2005, 23:10

What are acceptible low and high levels of copper for plecos, particularly Ancistrus? Since the lake the house is on has been treated with higher levels of copper sulfate, can't keep any plecos for long; whereas prior to that no problem ever encountered.

plecolover · Post by **plecolover** » 01 May 2005, 09:02

As per my experience, nearly all plecos are sensitive to copper. If the copper level in a tank of fresh water is around 0.10mg/L, plecos will immediately perform strange and look stressed; if the copper level is higher than 0.2mg/L, some plecos will get dead in 24 hours especially Ancistrus typed plecos. The copper level in fresh water should be always below 0.02mg/L.

sjogren1 · Post by **sjogren1** » 01 May 2005, 13:21

Thanks. Seems the problem is with old copper plumbing which can apparently increase copper level without obvious detection.

xinguinsis · Post by **xinguinsis** » 03 May 2005, 09:44

Hi Roger could you please elaborate on what you mean whith increase copper levels without obvious detection.A friends having a ancistrus problems which seem remarkably like the time residual copper from snail treatment was killing my ancistrus.

sjogren1 · Post by **sjogren1** » 03 May 2005, 22:53

Sure, no prob. My father-in-law had kept Water Sprite in his 55 US gal. tank for years. He also kept Ancistrus. Recently, all of his Water Sprite began dying off and attempts to place more in from my tanks proved unsuccessful. All else seemed ok. Without apparent warning, his Ancistrus, of six years, became poorly and died. New introductions of Ancistrus likewise failed. After much thought, water testing (not copper) and discussion, we decided to question the copper levels. It appears that the problem was not, at least exclusively, from the lake treatment. His copper plumbing is over forty years old. When he began to replace the copper with PVC he noticed a large amount of residue from inside of the old plumbing. We queried planted aquarium forums and was pointed in the copper direction. Without the problem with the Water Sprite, we would never have questioned it at lenghth. The copper level had risen none-the-less, unknown to us. The mystery of Ancistrus demise may have remained one, hence "without obvious detection." Good luck with your mates problem.

xinguinsis · Post by **xinguinsis** » 04 May 2005, 00:49

Cheers Roger,
I think I'll get him to try a heavy metal sponge.Ancistrus start air gulping a couple of minutes after being put in this tank which has high dissolved oxygen levels a behaviour I noticed in my fish when copper levels were high.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 May 2005, 09:39

I think there are tests you can get to see the copper level. From what I understand, this is critical for marine tanks, but I'd be surprised if the test is relying on the salt content in the water to work, so I'd expect it to work in fresh-water too.

I'm sure you get copper from the pipes, but I would expect that's fairly small amounts. However, if your local water supply is fairly acidic, I'd expect the copper "gain" from the pipes to be higher than if the water is neutral or alkalic.

--
Mats

xinguinsis · Post by **xinguinsis** » 04 May 2005, 16:21

Sweet I'll go the test kit first then .

fishfarmer · Post by **fishfarmer** » 04 May 2005, 19:01

The acidity comment is a key factor. A few years ago, one of our local water districts started softening their water and also dropped the pH and suddenly there was a rash of pipe failures from pitting from the inside.

catfishgrrl · Post by **catfishgrrl** » 05 May 2005, 09:11

sjogren1 wrote:My father-in-law had kept Water Sprite in his 55 US gal. tank for years. He also kept Ancistrus. Recently, all of his Water Sprite began dying off and attempts to place more in from my tanks proved unsuccessful. All else seemed ok. Without apparent warning, his Ancistrus, of six years, became poorly and died.

I had the exact same thing happen a few weeks ago

The water sprite started looking like crap. Then all my Ancistrus juvies died off in two days totally unexpectedly. They looked fine, they ate a variety of veggies. Then they stopped eating and the next day one by one, died.
The water tested fine for everything I had tested it for (did not test for copper).
How would you remove copper from the water and treat the survivors (if you have any)? My cories seem Okay, for now.
Thanks,
Steph

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 May 2005, 09:59

catfishgrrl wrote:
sjogren1 wrote:My father-in-law had kept Water Sprite in his 55 US gal. tank for years. He also kept Ancistrus. Recently, all of his Water Sprite began dying off and attempts to place more in from my tanks proved unsuccessful. All else seemed ok. Without apparent warning, his Ancistrus, of six years, became poorly and died.
I had the exact same thing happen a few weeks ago

The water sprite started looking like crap. Then all my Ancistrus juvies died off in two days totally unexpectedly. They looked fine, they ate a variety of veggies. Then they stopped eating and the next day one by one, died.
The water tested fine for everything I had tested it for (did not test for copper).
How would you remove copper from the water and treat the survivors (if you have any)? My cories seem Okay, for now.
Thanks,
Steph

I'm not sure there is an easy way to remove copper from water, once it's in there.

One obvious solution is to first of all figure out that it IS copper that is the problem (test-kit will help here). If you do find that you've got high contents of copper in the water, you could try to find a different source of water (supermarket if nothing else, just make sure it's not "mineral water", as it may contain either copper or other minerals that aren't good for the fish.). Some fish shops sell Reverse Osmosis water by the gallon, and that should be copper free (as well as any other mineral/electrolytes, so you need to add "electrolyte salt" to make it OK for your fish.

Long term, you need to either find a way to "fix" the copper problem in your tap-water (e.g. replace pipes with PVC), or get a reverse osmosis unit (which obviously not only removes copper, but hardness and almost anything else that you may find in the water, includingthe electrolyte salts that the fish needs to be able to breathe and live happily).

Naturally, if the copper is in your tap water, and the levels are high as it comes into your house (I'm not sure how you find this out, get a sample from a different source, or perhaps if the water company has public reports on what content there is in the water), it's not easy to do anything about. If the levels are below the "safe limit" issued by the health authority/water standards in your country, you can't exactly complain to the water company for the fact that your fish are getting ill.

--
Mats

Post by **Barbie** » 05 May 2005, 17:15

They make a product for saltwater called "Poly Filter". It's not cheap, but it will remove copper. I definitely wouldn't buy it on the off chance you might have some though. Definitely test for it first. You might contact a saltwater store in your area and see what they'd charge you to run a test on it, if you don't want to play chemist for a day.

Barbie

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 05 May 2005, 21:27

Before I went to RO water, I used Cuprisorb. It's nifty because it changes colors when it's exhausted. It's not cheap either.