Keeping Plecos Alive

blang · Post by **blang** » 11 Apr 2005, 01:53

I am having problems keeping bn alive for more than 2 or 3 months. I have a 15 gallon tank. The first couple died because of ICK but the others I have had just died. The last one was very active for a couple of months and then all of sudden I rarely saw him. Within a couple of weeks he was dead. All my other fish are fine.

I feed my pleco's zuchini about twice a week. I've tried other things but they really prefer zuchini. On the odd days, I drop a small wafer in at night.

Am I just having bad luck or am I doing something wrong?

bloozoo2 · Post by **bloozoo2** » 11 Apr 2005, 11:17

You might not have seen, but there is a "sticky" at the top of this forum about information you need to give when asking for help. Once you can give more info along those lines, someone might be able to help.....
Without knowing exactly what type of BN you are talking about etc. etc. we can't help....

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Apr 2005, 11:18

Well, without knowing exactly what Pleco you're keeping, and what your water parameters are, etc, etc, it would be hard to answer your questions, but here's a few wild-ass-guesses:

0. If you could add some details of what your fish looked like when it died, it would help. Such things as if the stomach is sunken or bloated, for instance.

1. You have a pretty small tank. 15g is not big enough to take a "Common pleco" once it's gone beyond it's first or second birthday. Of course, if your "pleco" is something other than a "common", then this may not be as big a problem. Something like Common Bristlenose, that grows relatively slow and doesn't get so big would be better (they only reach about 5" in length, whilst a traditional Common Pleco will grow well beyond 10", and definitely outgrow your tank).

2. Most plecos produce a lot of waste. You should change at least 25% of the water in the tank each week, using dechlorinator in the replacement water, of course. It would help a lot to check the nitrate values in the tank. The nitrate level should be less than 25 ppm at all times. Also checking for Ammonia and Nitrite would be a good idea. If your tank isn't matured, or you've done something to kill of the filtration bacteria, you may not have the necessary "clean-up" bacteria in the tank, which would prevent the fish-poo and fish-pee to be cleaned up quickly enough, thus poisoning the fish.

Also, make sure you clean the filter correctly. You should use old water from the tank to rinse the filter material, and never use tap-water. The chlorine in the tap-water will kill the friendly bacteria in the filter and basicly "restart" your maturing process. Cleaning the filter every other week may be a good idea if you have a large-ish pleco in there.

3. Plecos, particularly bigger ones, need A LOT of oxygen. Fast flowing water (from filter or power-head) and/or big air-stone will definitely help here.

4. Temperature. What temperature do you have in the tank? This will influence a lot of things, including the oxygen content and the activity of the fish.

5. Giving algae wafers as a supplement to the food will definitely not hurt the overall health of the fish.

If you have common pleco, or a similar specie, zucchini is a fine food, so I don't think this is what's going wrong.

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Mats

blang · Post by **blang** » 11 Apr 2005, 14:05

1. Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I have a bn (drawf bristlenose)

2. My levels are fine (nitrite 0, ammonia 0 and ph 7.4) I have never tested for nitrate. I clean about 20-30% weekly. Filter is cleaned in tank water. I have a biowheel that I never touch.

3. I have an eclipse tank and there is a strong current. The tank has been cycled since August.

4. The temp is 78.

The last three plecos I purchased are from a local breeder according to the LFS. I know they are not lying as the guy was in the store one day. Hope this gives you a better picture. I also have 2 mollies, 3 red-eye tetras, 3 panda cories and a male betta (which was added about 2 months ago.)

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Apr 2005, 14:41

blang wrote:1. Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I have a bn (drawf bristlenose)

2. My levels are fine (nitrite 0, ammonia 0 and ph 7.4) I have never tested for nitrate. I clean about 20-30% weekly. Filter is cleaned in tank water. I have a biowheel that I never touch.

3. I have an eclipse tank and there is a strong current. The tank has been cycled since August.

4. The temp is 78.

The last three pl*cos I purchased are from a local breeder according to the LFS. I know they are not lying as the guy was in the store one day. Hope this gives you a better picture. I also have 2 mollies, 3 red-eye tetras, 3 panda cories and a male betta (which was added about 2 months ago.)

Ah, that makes some difference, but no, it doesn't explain why they are dying... Seems strange to me, since Bristlenoses generally are quite hardy, and I've had my oldest one for about two years now, the second oldest for roughly half a year, and they are in prime health (obvious by the fact that I've got 50 young ones with the father, mother separated to prevent complet overflowing of fish...).

If anything, Panda cories are pictured as a fish that doesn't tolerate bad water conditions, so that's a good sign that your tank is doing quite well...

P.S. I'm not sure what a "Dwarf" bristlenose is, as far as I know, they are all a merged-hybrid-tank-bred Ancistrus species that grows to about 5". Now, I've previously written that I believe they are "dwarf" compared to the "Common pleco", which indeed they don't grow even half their size, but still as far as I know, there's no such thing as a DWARF of Ancistrus species. There are some that grow a bit bigger than most, and some species that grow a little bit smaller, but the common ones should grow to roughly 5 inches. I'd be happy to hear from someone else that can explain what is meant by "Dwarf" in this case.

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Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 11 Apr 2005, 17:24

Tank conditions sound fine. try a fish from a different source. that breeder could be selling inbred, diseased or poor quality fish.

blang · Post by **blang** » 11 Apr 2005, 17:26

Is it possible if there is a problem that they might appear very healthy and actice for the first couple of months but really have a problem?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Apr 2005, 17:35

blang wrote:Is it possible if there is a problem that they might appear very healthy and actice for the first couple of months but really have a problem?

Sure. They could have some long-term genetical defect that only occur when they start to mature, for example. For instance, their liver or kidneys may not work correctly, or a defect in the heart, or whatever.

If all your fish come from the same source, I agree with racoll, try the same type of fish from some other supplier. Make sure that it's a different breeder, because if he/she is a (semi-)professional breeder he probably supplies to more than one local shop. [Heck, I could probably supply most of northeast hampshire/northwest surrey, given that I'd get 20-30 offspring every month or so, which would most likely cover the sales from all the most local shops around here. With two females, I could get about double that. I just don't have the tank-space to grow them out to saleable size... Nor the time to look after that many tanks, of course. Instead, I'm using "Birthcontrol by separation" to prevent all my tanks from being baby-rooms...]

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Mats

blang · Post by **blang** » 11 Apr 2005, 18:00

OK, I will do that. It's funny, the tank is so much cleaner without the pleco. Yes, I have to clean off algae but there is definately much less waste.

I am also thinking of getting a couple of ottos instead. I have two ottos in my ten gallon and they are doing a great job. I was always told that they are not as hardy but these guys survived a breakout of columnaris without blinking an eye. They were the only fish that didn't get stressed out from the medication or the disease. All the other fish stopped eating but these two guys had a fat belly the whole time. These guys were purchased from the same LFS. How many ottos do you think I would have room for in this 15 gallon if I decided to go that route. Who's the better cleaner...Otto or pleco?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 12 Apr 2005, 10:14

Can't tell you which is the better cleaner, but Otto's are very nice fish too, and in a small-ish tank like a 15g they go very nicely (of course, they are nice in a big tank too, but only if there aren't any big fish there...

All bigger pleocos tend to produce quite a lot of waste (even my small ones that are just an inch or so produce a LOT of poo every day, hence change water 2-3 times a week and 45% of the tank volume).

I think it's an oversimlified statement to say that Oto's are sensitive. They aren't the most hardy fish, but if your water is within reason right for them, then they'll do quite well... They just don't like "bad" water... But then I don't know of ANY fish that LIKES bad water...

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Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 12 Apr 2005, 17:02

with weekly 25% water changes, six ottos will be great in your tank. they may not eat the same volume of algae as the bristlenose, but are much more meticulous, with their smaller mouths getting into every crevice.

do get a nitrate test kit though. your tapwater may be really high. that may have killed the bristlenose, but it seems unlikely.