Warm madtom Potential hazards?

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 22 Mar 2005, 10:58

My madtom has been in a tropical tank for five months and is happy. She hides, eats and has robust coppery skin. Her barbels point conically forward and she is the most active fish in my tank! She even beats out the greedy cories for brine shrimp. Early on I was feeding bloodworms but read they were not good for her. Coincidentally, a powerhead added for her has induced her instincts to stay hidden most of the day and she doesn't get bloodworms when they are fed.

She had a growth spurt recently and I'm curious as to what temperature she would be comfy at, assuming 81 is a bit steep for her. What harm will higher temps do?

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Mar 2005, 11:17

This depends on what species of madtom you have. Some madtoms actually do better at warmer temperatures (though 81 is still somewhat high).

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 23 Mar 2005, 02:06

I left a response earlier today but it's gone, so here's another.

She in Noturus Gyrinus, the tadpole cat. And I'm lowering my temp to 79, is that comfy enough? I've read about seining and how Gyrinus can be found in warmer waters when other types flee to cooler zones. Even 80+ often. Also, they are found in 80+ water during the summer months, so perhaps it has done no harm, but I will keep it lower from now on. Her tankmates are a baby Adonis pleco (don't worry, I'm prepared) and three albino cory cats. So 79 is about as low as I want the temp to go. Compromise acceptable for all?

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Mar 2005, 02:08

That should do. Tadpole madtoms are among the most hardy of the lot. They also don't like a current (which is unusual for a madtom).

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 23 Mar 2005, 09:04

Hold on, hold on. I bought a powerhead just for her. She had been spending hours upon hours swimming up and down in the bubble stream from the airstone. When I put it in she went into hiding and grew half an inch. I assumed she was happy. When the powerhead malfunctioned by filling with air, she came out again and played in the stream like nothing had happened, but she looks about one fourth more massive. I can't believe how huge her head and belly are and she is 'taller' than I'd imagine she could have grown in two weeks' time. So is hiding a natural instinct for her, or was she reacting to a hostile environment? And why such an amazing growth spurt? Feeding is the same, brine shrimp, tropical crumbs and rarely bloodworms. Could she just be having a natural grow?

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Mar 2005, 10:37

Tadpole madtoms are naturally found in backwaters and areas where there are little/no current. The growth rate may have been the result of the elevated temperature.

BTW, bloodworms are fine for the madtom (I feed my margined and speckled madtoms bloodworms regularly). It's annelids that are the problem.

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 24 Mar 2005, 11:14

Oh. I'm glad to know bloodworms are okay!

Her temp was actually constant for the duration of her stay so far. I really don't know what adding a pleco could have done to urge growth, and that's the only variable. Wait! Could she be eating the algae wafers?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 24 Mar 2005, 11:42

knifegill wrote:Oh. I'm glad to know bloodworms are okay!

Her temp was actually constant for the duration of her stay so far. I really don't know what adding a pl*co could have done to urge growth, and that's the only variable. Wait! Could she be eating the algae wafers?

Probably eating algae wafers. They are pretty tasty (well, it seems all my fish thinks so, I haven't actually tried them myself. Apparently my fiancee's parents cat (as in fourlegged furry creature) thinks they are OK too).

I have a hard time preventing my other fish (Rosy Barbs, Bosemans Rainbows) from eating the algae wafers in my tanks. Also my Goldfish and danios seem quite fond of them, so I'm sure any other fish would eat them too.

--
Mats

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 24 Mar 2005, 12:29

Any clue as to why she likes swimming up and down in the bubble stream so much?

Post by **Silurus** » 24 Mar 2005, 12:31

My madtoms don't touch algae wafers, even though some of the other catfishes do. How sure are you that your fish is female? Male madtoms develop huge cheek muscles during breeding season and that may be what's happening in your case.

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 24 Mar 2005, 23:09

Right! I should compare photos of males in the ready and females.

I call her a she because when I first caught her, she was okay. But a month later, she apparently became pregnant. It took two weeks for her abdomen to fully distend. Then she scared me by playing dead and floating at the surface. But at the same time, she was dropping miniature catfish! She was only an inch and a half, so I assumed they were a meal she'd had before I caught her, but her corresponding behavior let on that she was a she.

She was gathered along with about sixty other madtoms, many adults and many juveniles. In the tank into which they were placed, they writhed and writhed in a glorious mass of catfish wonder for a day or two. I removed the smallest one, mine now, and kept her out of the soon-to-be dead zone of improperly-cared-for fish. This was not my tank, so I had no say in the matter, but was allowed to rescue her.

Either they were all trying to hide under each other or it was a last mating run. The place we caught them was rapidly drying out so maybe they were doing a last dance in hopes of preserving the population. Anyway, it is this info which has led me to believe that she is a she. If not birth, why the timely bloating?

wizkidd26 · Post by **wizkidd26** » 27 Mar 2005, 06:17

Knifegill, from what I understand, you're saying that your madtom dropped LIVE young? If so, I don't think that madtoms could do that, perhaps you mistook the "young" for eggs? I could be wrong about this but I believe you mistook the eggs for live young.

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 28 Mar 2005, 10:11

They looked more like dead fry and must have been a meal, since my cat is apparently an egglayer. Also, she was way too young to have bred, right? But why the prevalent bloating (and playing dead) before dropping these remains? Was my little cat on the verge of death? I've never heard of catfish playing dead the way she did.

Post by **Silurus** » 28 Mar 2005, 12:37

That might have been due to the heat. When I had my heater accident, a number of fish were like that (bloated and moribund) before they recovered.

OK, so now there's no compelling reason for your fish to be a "she".

knifegill · Post by **knifegill** » 09 Apr 2005, 13:13

Yes. You win! She could be a he. And the muscles around the mouth are massive, but the rest of *him* has kept up nicely! He's now at a full three inches and friendly as can be, though it seems as he's matured he's taken to cave life more and more. I'll miss seeing that snakey form in daylight, but I still catch him in dim light at night.

A little observation/query. The outer edge of his caudal fin usually turns black when he eats bloodworms. Is he darkening for any specific purpose or is it more like a mood indicator?

Warm madtom Potential hazards?

Warm madtom Potential hazards?

Second try on reply