Catfish in Art, Religion and Myth?

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 05 Mar 2005, 17:40

Just bought a great book on mythology. Just wondering if you've ever heard of any catfish (or other fish for that matter) playing a role in old myths or in some religion/culture. I remember that i've read something about Synodontis (and mormyriids, was it?) appearing in egyptian hieroglyphics.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 05 Mar 2005, 17:49

Synodontis, Mormyrids, Gymnarchus and Polypterus all show up in hyroglyphs; and afaik Malapterurus as well.

then there are some old Japanese stories or fairytales wich sport a giant catfish; some of the Asain people here on the forum might know a bit more about that (My Japanese knowledge of literature begins and ends with Mushashi)

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 05 Mar 2005, 18:02

polypterus?... that's awsome! Do you know some site with pictures of it?

JoseAngelBarro · Post by **JoseAngelBarro** » 05 Mar 2005, 18:36

Check this

http://www.polypterus.info/

Hi

Post by **Shane** » 05 Mar 2005, 18:36

If you can get a copy... Benigno Romano (1982) "Los Peces de Los Llanos de Venezuela II: Los Bagres" has a chapter entitled "Los Bagres en El Folklore Venezolano" (Catfishes in Venezuelan Folklore).

-Shane

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 05 Mar 2005, 19:14

Actually, and this is some coincidence, but Silurus is working on a series of articles on catfish folklore. The first article is due to go online this week.

Jools

Post by **Silurus** » 05 Mar 2005, 23:13

I might as well take this opportunity to ask if anyone knows of any catfish folklore/myth. The first instalment of the series is done (featuring a Native American story), and I am now working on the second instalment (featuring the rich and varied role of the namazu in Japanese folklore, which was partially covered in the January 2005 CotM article).

I am out of stories beyond instalment 2, so some help is greatly appreciated.

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Mar 2005, 00:23

TalenT,

Here are some Egyptian art featuring fishes:

Mugil (cephalus?), Hyperopisus bebe and Tilapia

Mugil (cephalus?), Synodontis (schall?), Lates niloticus, Tilapia, Clarias gariepinus (might be Heterobranchus) and Brachysynodontis batensoda

Post by **Shane** » 06 Mar 2005, 02:58

HH,
I would be happy to help with regards to Venezuelan/Colombian indigenous myths. I also have some info on taboos from various tribes.
-Shane

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 06 Mar 2005, 15:46

Part 1 is online here : http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/s_c_280.php

Jools

TalenT · Post by **TalenT** » 06 Mar 2005, 19:40

Thanks Silurus, this is just the kind of pictures i was looking for. Interesting that one of the Synodontis on picture 2 are depicted swimming upside-down. One can imagine that the habit of Synodontis species swimming upside-down would have fueled the birth of some legends like the one you just published in "Shanes world". Not mentioning what the ancient egyptians must have thought about the electric catfish... having no understanding of how electricity

works.

I'm looking forward to reading more of these legends.

Thanks for keeping this site the best on the web!

Post by **Silurus** » 06 Mar 2005, 21:16

The ancient Egyptians called Malapterurus "he who releases many", from the implication that the fisherman who hauled a catch with Malapterurus would get an unpleasant jolt handling the fish, drop the net in surprise and lose his catch.

beng · Post by **beng** » 21 Mar 2005, 13:19

In the Christian Bible, in the book of Matthew, ch.13, Jesus tells a story:

47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. 48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. 49 So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous

While it does not identify the fish, the "bad" fish that the fisherman threw away would be most likely Clarias gariepinus, as it does not have scales and therefore is not kosher according to Jewish law. The range of C. gariepinus extends through Israel into Lebanon, Syria, and southern Turkey.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 21 Mar 2005, 18:29

Oh, I shouldn't get started on this one.

In Kosher law, a "bad" fish could also refer to something mammalian, such as a dolphin, a whale or any other ocean-faring mammal. Or maybe a freshwater mammal. Does anybody know what was native to the area at the time? If some fisherman, back in the day, had somehow, someway, seen a mammal feeding its young, this would have fallen under "Kosher" laws as meat. You would not be able to have meat and milk in the same meal. The same applies today to those who choose to eat a Kosher diet. All seafood is considered non-Kosher, as is pork. Talmudic law is long and confusing. I am female, hence I was excluded from such discussions whenever attending Shul(temple), as was my Mom. It's left us with quite a bitter taste, as has almost all organized religion. We feel that being Kosher probably made sense back then. Parasites were rampant in the food supply and refrigeration was readily available. I have older relatives who won't touch a pork chop. "It's traif!" But, not 10 minutes later, are in an Asian-style restaurant eating spare ribs. Go figure!

Post by **Shane** » 22 Mar 2005, 00:46

Here is the Yanomamo creation myth of the panaque...

The "demiurgo" cut a tree and split a piece of the bark and let it fall into the water. The piece transformed into a caribe (pirana). They cut off other pieces of bark that they also let fall into the water and from those pieces they named the fishes that were born: cachama (tambaqui), palometa (silver dollar), etc. With a long and wide piece they created the panaque...

-Shane

Post by **Shane** » 22 Mar 2005, 00:57

Just to let Bronzefry know there are many food taboos all over,

The Yabaranas (upper Rio Manapiare) do not eat tonino (freshwater dolphin) or valenton (Brachyplatystoma filamentosum) because their mythology says both creatures were once humans.

The Yanamami (upper Orinoco) eat many small fishes but no big ones. They believe that if a man eats big fishes while his wife is pregnant the fetus could become deformed and be born with fins instead of arms and legs.

The Makiritares (upper Rio Ventuari) never eat cajaro (SA red tail) because they believe that if you eat cajaro your kids will die. All other catfishes can be eaten except by pregnant women.
-Shane

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 22 Mar 2005, 14:15

Don't forget the Islamic religion, the Hindu religion...I think we could go on and on and on!