5 second memory in fish?

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 04 Mar 2005, 18:08

There a very common myth in the UK that fish, goldfish in particular, have a 5 second memory.

i don't believe this too be true, as i'm sure most of you will agree.

memory, even in fish is very complicated, but does this have any truth in reality?

if someone could direct me to the original paper, (if there was one) i would be most grateful.

Post by **Silurus** » 04 Mar 2005, 18:24

This may not be directly relevant:

Broglio, C, F Rodriguez & C Salas, 2003. Spatial cognition and its neural basis in teleost fishes. Fish and Fisheries, 4: 247-255.

Abstract

The present review is focused on recent laboratory studies revealing that the spatial behaviour of fishes is as complex and elaborate as described in land vertebrates. In addition, the data presented here indicate that the remarkable richness and plasticity of spatial behaviour in fishes are based on learning and memory mechanisms and cognitive processes that depend on particular brain circuits, possibly homologous to those identified in mammals and birds. For example, there is evidence that the fish hippocampal pallium is essential for processing and encoding complex spatial information to form map-like representations of the environment. In contrast, body-centred orientation strategies or emotional learning are subserved by different cerebral structures, such as the optic tectum, the cerebellum or the amygdalar pallium. These results that suggest a striking similarity in some cognitive processes and their neural basis between fish and land vertebrates are consistent with the possibility that these vertebrate groups share a common basic pattern of brain and behaviour organisation inherited from a common ancestor and conserved through a long history of separate evolution.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 04 Mar 2005, 18:36

Thanks, that corresponds with the complicated territoral activity we see in fish like cichlids and catfish .

Silurus do you know where this myth came from? is the same true in the US?

WhitePine · Post by **WhitePine** » 04 Mar 2005, 23:00

I saw this episode of "Myth Buster" where they taught gold fish to swim through a maze. They used two different training techniques...and one actually made the fish capable of swimming through the maze faster and faster.
Check out the link below:

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythb ... de_04.html

Cheers,Whitepine

Taratron · Post by **Taratron** » 05 Mar 2005, 03:15

I had always -wondered- about people telling me that goldfish had a three second memory span (I was told 3 seconds, maybe the people who passed on said urban legend thought 5 was too much credit to their oscar chow?). After all, just from a biological standpoint, how long is a species going to survive if it can't remember if it's spawning or running from a predator, and what to do in either situation!

ronsterrc · Post by **ronsterrc** » 05 Mar 2005, 06:09

its also common knowledge that people who recall such urban myths only have 6 seconds of memory themselves....i couldn't remember who told me this as wtf what am i doing here!!!

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 05 Mar 2005, 09:33

I saw a scientific test on the news here (I think it was done in the UK, not too sure though), where they rang a bell/buzzer before they release the food into a box which was in the tank every day. They than stopped for about 2 months (I think), then retested the behaviour, and when they rang the bell/buzzer all the fish rushed into the box before the food was released.
I guess this shows that the fish had learn't the the bell/buzzer and the box ment food, and remembered this for a long period of time.

Cheers, CatBrat.

Taratron · Post by **Taratron** » 05 Mar 2005, 10:05

Just my limited experience with some marine fish has proven to me that fish do have memory skills...and the capacity for learning! How else did I start out with -one- volitan lionfish spitting water at me when it was chow time, and now have all three launching spitballs of saltwater at me? And our epaulette shark and moray eel have been trained to be tongfed for years, to the point that they swim across the tank to where I am working if I'm using the tongs for other purposes (like smacking the damn triggerfish as I struggle to remove a rubber band that somehow ended up in the tank!).

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 05 Mar 2005, 10:40

that discorery show looks quite good. can't wait till it's on in the UK.

my male Apistogramma agassizi learnt that i fed bloodworms with a pipette after just one feed!!!

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 05 Mar 2005, 17:51

I trained my granny's; really wasted them

so now when I open the tank and call (!), they start swimming upsidedown and I can scratch their heads or bellies while I feed them koi-spirulina pellets, wich they really appreciate....

some much for PAVLOV and the 5 second myth.

Kimrin · Post by **Kimrin** » 05 Mar 2005, 19:45

LOL, I've never met a fish who forgot what a net was for. Unfortunately.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 07 Mar 2005, 12:47

Tetras seem to be into scheduled feedings. Every evening at the same time, they're in a feeding schoal, pecking at the surface, even if there's no food there.

Post by **Shane** » 07 Mar 2005, 13:09

There a very common myth in the UK that fish, goldfish in particular, have a 5 second memory.

I guess none of these people thought about the fact that Salmon find their home rivers after years?
-Shane

Post by **Silurus** » 07 Mar 2005, 13:24

Salmon navigation has a lot to do with olfaction and less with memory.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Mar 2005, 13:38

racoll wrote:that discorery show looks quite good. can't wait till it's on in the UK.

my male Apistogramma agassizi learnt that i fed bloodworms with a pipette after just one feed!!!

That particular show was on about a week or two ago, on one of the sky-channels on saturday or sunday [it kept me from changing the water in my tanks, it was that good]. Not so much about the goldfish learning curve, but their general behaviour in proving things well beyond the point necessary to debunk a myth. I haven't laughed around on the floor that much in years. May be more of an indication of my weird sense of humour than anything else, but nevertheless, I enjoyed it a lot.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 07 Mar 2005, 15:24

I wonder if it'll be repeated?

LOL!

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Mar 2005, 15:37

racoll wrote:I wonder if it'll be repeated?

LOL!

Seeing as I liked it, I suspect not

They seem to repeat everything except the stuff you want to see... But I'm sure they'll repeat it at SOME point...

--
Mats

Post by **Shane** » 07 Mar 2005, 22:17

Salmon navigation has a lot to do with olfaction and less with memory.

Yes HH, but wouldn't that olfactory data have to stored somewhere?
-Shane