Blue "Panaque" L239 info Please

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 22 Feb 2005, 15:45

My LFS has just got some of these in.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... i/42_f.php

does anyone have any info on them.

i gather Ancistrinae is a bit of a dumping ground for fish that don't fit into any particular genus.

are they definately not Panaque? these look a lot like Baryancistrus to me.

can anyone help me?

thanks

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 22 Feb 2005, 15:53

Hi,
why "dumb"?
The next taxon level above genus is subfamily.
And subfamily Ancistrinae is correct.
If you follow Armbruster (Jools does so ;)

) the subfamily would even be Hypostominae.

I keep Panaque, Panaqolus, Baryancistrus and L 239. And morphologically IMHO L 239 does not fit in any of these genera.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 22 Feb 2005, 16:01

Thanks for the info.
What kind of size will it reach and what do you feed yours on?

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 22 Feb 2005, 16:13

Hi,
itÂ´s a wood eater and grazer, similar to Panaque.
I think, I have never seen my L 239 eating, itÂ´s the shyest pleco I own. Sometimes in the evening he is scampering around.
In the beginning his color was only dark grey, but by time he really has turned a little bit into blue, this should be a result of the low conductifity water in my tanks (I have heared).
I do not know the maximum size - but the fish should not reach much more than 12 - 15 cm.
A friend of mine has spawned them with a size smaller than 10 cm TL. I got mine from him, unluckily the female did not survive the transport.

leiarius pictus · Post by **leiarius pictus** » 22 Feb 2005, 21:21

Racoll, I'm w/ Walter on this little guy, small, shy and
very beautiful. Ours is a dark indigo blue and I don't think I've ever seen him eat either but I know he does when I see his fat belly against the glass. I think that it's exciting that someone has bred them. We'd have more of these little guys in a minute.

Leiarius pictus

"Those who restrain desire do so because theirs is weak enough to be restained." William Blake

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 22 Feb 2005, 22:09

hmmm. to get one or not?????

i've got my eye on a few other species as well.

i don't want to disrupt a happy tank with too many plecos.

sometimes you just can't resist though.

it'll be a good excuse for more tanks!!

thanks for the information.

andregurov · Post by **andregurov** » 23 Feb 2005, 01:23

I've 4 in quarantine right now, and they do NOT like to move. They seem to spend far more time on the glass than on the substrate. I had read to keep them at cooler temps with a low pH. Do they respond better with current? I've tried keeping them as Hypancistrus ... can anyone vouch for the efficacy of this approach?

J

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 23 Feb 2005, 20:46

Hi,
I have to ad:
now, at this moment, my L 239 is sitting on a peace of potatoe gnawing on it...

Sorry, no digicam

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 23 Feb 2005, 21:22

what genus would you put them in Walter?

what kind of dentition do they have?

they are quite broad, superficialy analogous to Parancistrus or A.ranunculus.

they don't seem as elongate as L128 or L200 that are found in the same drainage. i gather these fish don't have a genus either.

as for temperature, what do you keep them at Walter? the cat-elog states 22-25 for the L128.

the dentition of the L128 is very similar to that of Baryancistrus.

see http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... /153_9.php

and http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/lo ... 223_10.php

how was Baryancistrus dismissed as a genus for these fish?

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 24 Feb 2005, 00:08

Hi racoll,
I canÂ´t give them a genus ;) - because there is no genus they fit in.
And I must admit, I never took a look on the teeth of my L 239 - he ist so shy, I rarely see him.

To the temperature:
Cat Elog is wrong with many data of temperature.
I guess, they follow Aqualog in this case, and Aqualog is also wrong.

I keep my L 239 at a T from 28 - 30Â° C (as most of my fish).
We had a discussion about temperature for keeping L 200 at http://www.l-welse.com. Claus Schaefer (author of "Das groÃ?e Buch der Welse") told, that he is keeping his L 200 at about 30Â° C since the early 90Â´s, as they live in their origin habitat - he has already been there and seen, that itÂ´s "really warm" there.
I canÂ´t see any reason for keeping fish cooler than in their origin habitat, I know the arguments "L 200 should be kept cooler" and so on.
I never had a problem with high temperature, but I have got airstones in each of my tanks!

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 24 Feb 2005, 10:15

thanks Walter.

i don't think there is an arguement for keeping fish at a lower temp to that of their natural environment, it was probabaly just accepted for some reason that their natural environment was at a lower temperature.

i'm at 26, with loads of aeration, so it should be OK.

Post by **Shane** » 24 Feb 2005, 10:51

To the temperature:
Cat Elog is wrong with many data of temperature.
I guess, they follow Aqualog in this case, and Aqualog is also wrong.

Walter,
If you know of a specific instance where the site has incorrect information, please point it out. Making generalizations like the one above does not help us to make the site better.

I keep my L 239 at a T from 28 - 30Â° C (as most of my fish).
We had a discussion about temperature for keeping L 200 at http://www.l-welse.com. Claus Schaefer (author of "Das groÃ?e Buch der Welse") told, that he is keeping his L 200 at about 30Â° C since the early 90Â´s, as they live in their origin habitat - he has already been there and seen, that itÂ´s "really warm" there.

I am sure L 200 can live at 30C for a long time, but it is not the "normal" temperature that this fish lives in. The surface water of the Orinoco at Puerto Carreno or further south at Puerto Ayacucho may reach this temperature, but L 200 are collected by divers in deep water that is much cooler than the water's surface temperature.
-Shane

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 24 Feb 2005, 13:51

Hi Shane,
we regullary discuss temperature informations of Cat-elog.
ItÂ´s often quite low - as it is in Aqualog.
In my eyes its often too low, but I have no problem with it - many aquarist keep their L 200 at 25Â°C and tell its ok, others keep them at 30Â° C and tell its ok.
You tell in deep water the T is lower, OK, its lower in potamons, but not lower in rapid flowing water? (ItÂ´s a question, Rio Xingu e.g. hast nearly the same T at each level of depth in fast flowing parts.
I would be interested in sources, the best source I know apart from houndred articles in scientifical and aquaria magazins ist "The Smithonean Atlas of the Amazon". Did you detect T in deeper parts of the river on your expeditions?)
Claus e.g. keeps his at high temperature ( http://l-welse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3032 ) - you keep yours at lower temperature...
I donÂ´t know, at which T L 200 has been spawned?

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 24 Feb 2005, 14:27

BTW, Shane,
I dont dare to doubt your data.
But 22 - 25Â° C fÃ¼r L 200?

Mika · Post by **Mika** » 26 May 2005, 08:05

I keep Panaque, Panaqolus, Baryancistrus and L 239. And morphologically I.M.H.O. L 239 does not fit in any of these genera.

Why? You havenÂ´t looked its teeth as you said is there some other differences?

Blue "Panaque" L239 info Please

Blue "Panaque" L239 info Please

blue panaque L-239