Biotope of Sorubim lima, some questions

[catfishcrazy]

As I will soon be expanding my collection of tanks I would like to put one of the larger ones to use as a biotope based around Sorubim lima since this was my first "real" catfish.
The tank will be either a 6x2x2' or a 66x30x24" (depending on which species i stock with) and I plan to decorate as in the Shanes world artical on blackwater biotopes (which is very similar to one of my existing set ups.
The species i have so far planned to stock with are

3x Sorubim lima
1x Pimelodus albofasciatus
1-3x Leporinus affinis/fasciatus
3-5 Hoplosternum thoratacum
3x Ctenolucius hujeta
1x Apteronotus albifrons (black ghost <a target="_blank" href="http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.ph ... ">knife</a> fish)

Could anyone be able to tell me whether these fish would be found in the same vincinity as Sorubim lima?

I would also be grateful for suggestions of other possible fish that are collected in the same area as S.lima, some possible fish i already have but i have been unable to confirm if they are found in the same locality are

Pimelodus ornatus
Hemisorubim platyrynchos
Platystomatichthys sturio
Metynis argenteus (silver dollar)
Chalceus erythrurus
Astronotus ocellatus (oscar)

I would particually like to know of mid water dwelling species as this area of the tank will be the least occupied though suggestions for any fish including Cichlids are most welcome.

Thanks in advance, CFC

[coelacanth]

I would particually like to know of mid water dwelling species as this area of the tank will be the least occupied though suggestions for any fish including c*****ds are most welcome.

I think that the first list might take your aquarium close to an ideal stocking on their own (no point in taking your stocking levels close to maximum). Even using the old inch-per-gallon rule you have the potential for over 120 "inches" of fish in there, but I have some other suggestions.
I've seen Leporinus affinis take other fish apart, those "rabbit teeth" can be put to very good use. Perhaps look at Leporinus desmotes (smaller, more peaceful and better looking fish) Anostomus trimaculatus (beautiful fish), Abramites sp., Leporinus maculatus. All these stay smaller than the potential 10-12" of L. affinis/fasciatus, which will free up tank room.
I'd avoid Oscars, there are dozens of other Cichlids from the same area that don't get quite as big and are just as interesting.
If you can make space for them by altering your planned stocking, Chalceus are stunning fish, great in a small group, or you could look at Triportheus sp.Pete

[catfishcrazy]

Thanks Coelacanth.

Are Chalceus species collected in the same loacilty of S.lima then? As far as i could find the two species that are available in the trade (C.macrolepidotus and C.erythrurus) both hail from Guyana where as S.lima is found in Venezuela and Paraguay.
Could anyone suggest a medium sized Cichlid for the set up, i must admit to not being very keen on them (the oscar i own was purchased as a dither fish for a jardini arowana)but a pair of something that is willing to breed in a community would supply a valuable source of live food.
I will keep my eyes open for some Triportheus sp. which i think would make a interesting additon if i can find some.

think that the first list might take your aquarium close to an ideal stocking on their own (no point in taking your stocking levels close to maximum).

I should have mentioned that the tank will be connected to a centralised system which depending on how many tanks i can squeeze into the fishhouse will be in the high hundreds to low thousands of gallons, so other than actuall space requirements over stocking isnt a problem, however i do plan to keep the stocking on this tank on the light side to give a truer representation of the biotope.

[coelacanth]

Are Chalceus species collected in the same loacilty of S.lima then?

I've seen them exported from Peru and Brazil, they are widely distributed. Although they are also found in the Guyanas, there are very few fish currently exported from there so any you see are likely to be from somewhere else.

Could anyone suggest a medium sized c*****d for the set up

Severums, large festive Cichlids, any of the medium-sized Acaras, true Geophagus, true Cichlasoma...

[sidguppy]

best watch out with cichlids and lima's!

Lima's are very easily intimidated and pounded upon; it's really a big wussy of a fish.

so you need a cichlid that
A: is utterly peaceful
B: doesn't eat like a pig (wich qualifies almost any cichlid ), because the Lima is very sensitive to foodcompetition.

I've seen that cichlid and it's called Geophagus.
a single pair of a medium sized eartheater will be a very nice and colorful add-on in the Lima tank.

[catfishcrazy]

Ive had my eldest lima for 7 years and one thing i can say is that this fish is definately not shy or a wuss, it uses its 14" body to full effect in order to get to the food and keep the best territory to the extent of even overpowering a similar size Liearus pictus, the other two limas (both around 10 inches and between 3 and 4 years old) have learnt from example and will compete with other fish for food. Believe me these fish are a dream to feed compared to other species i have.

Geophagus species are nice but unfortunately the only true species i can get hold of easily is G.brassiliensis which is quite aggressive, other than that all i can find are Satanoperca species which will not be biotopically correct, i really do intend this tank to be as close to the real thing as possible.
If the severums are found in the same locality i may go with those since i already have a breeding pair in one of my tanks and if not it will probably be blue acara's which are easily available. I am also considering prehaps a small group of scalare angels if i can find some natural looking ones

[coelacanth]

Geophagus species are nice but unfortunately the only true species i can get hold of easily is G.brassiliensis which is quite aggressive

Also geographically inappropriate, can grow up to be a real bruiser.

other than that all i can find are Satanoperca species which will not be biotopically correct, i really do intend this tank to be as close to the real thing as possible

Any of the "Juruparoid" Satanopercas would be appropriate, they are found from Peru and Bolivia eastwards across Colombia, Brazil, Venezuela and the Guyanan Shield area.

it will probably be blue acara's which are easily available.

A lot of those "Blue Acaras" in the trade are actually young Green Terrors, and therefore poentially much larger and more aggressive. Neither are really geographically appropriate.

I am also considering prehaps a small group of scalare angels if i can find some natural looking ones

I've seen large adult Angels with Sorubim without problem, just be sure that the other fish won't upset them.

[Felix]

Limas can be shy. Have some decorative elements that will allow them to camouflage themselves by pretending to be part of the plant life. Very neat how they do that. Only thing I'd caution about with Oscars is to watch the size differential. If O thinks he can swallow them, he'll certainly try. Once the Limas are grown, no sweat. Severums are great, and I really like Uarus. Thing about all cichlids is if they start spawning they can be quite ferocious about keeping others out of the egg/fry area. I have a couple of Limas now in a tank with pumpkinseeds & perch -- oh, and a shortnose gar. Everybody seems OK. Obviously started with the idea of a native tank, but their size matched up best with this group for now.

[catfishcrazy]

Limas can be shy. Have some decorative elements that will allow them to camouflage themselves by pretending to be part of the plant life. Very neat how they do that. Only thing I'd caution about with Oscars is to watch the size differential. If O thinks he can swallow them, he'll certainly try. Once the Limas are grown, no sweat. Severums are great, and I really like Uarus. Thing about all c*****ds is if they start spawning they can be quite ferocious about keeping others out of the egg/fry area. I have a couple of Limas now in a tank with pumpkinseeds & perch -- oh, and a shortnose gar. Everybody seems OK. Obviously started with the idea of a native tank, but their size matched up best with this group for now.

Did you read any of the above posts? My limas are 14 inches and 10 inches in length and as far as I can tell still growing, I'd be amazed to see any oscar try and swallow these. The tank is a Amazon black water habitat biotope which means that there is no plants present more than a few inches below the surface (dark tannin stained water doesnt allow enough light penetration for substrate rooted plants to grow), I will probably attach a few bits of riccia to the mangrove roots near the surface and use Amazon frogbit and water lettuce to diffuse some light but these will be the only plants in the tank.
Uaru are extreemly shy and very easily frightened so I wouldn't even consider these for any tank with Pimeloid catfish, the active nature and long probing whiskers will have the uaru covered in ICH in no time. Uara are really only suited to a species tank or prehaps with discus which are similar in requirements and temperment.

Any of the "Juruparoid" Satanopercas would be appropriate, they are found from Peru and Bolivia eastwards across Colombia, Brazil, Venezuela and the Guyanan Shield area.

LOL, thats just typical. I recently gave away some S.leucostica (jurapari) since they didnt fit into any future plans and were being bullied a little by larger fish, plus starting to be in danger of being eaten. I guess I should have just moved them to another tank to grow out a while

I think i will stick to the original list minus the Leporinus which I think will be too nippy for angels which i will add 6 to 8 of to begin with. I'll also consider the Chalceus depending on how well they are likely to mix with the Ctenolucius but I have the feeling that the Ctenolucius may be a bit too active for the Chalceus which are quite shy and jumpy, time will tell once the Chalceus have grown a little.
I'm still open to suggestions, particually now for Doradids and Loricarids to assist in clean up as the layout of the tank will make it quite difficult to vacume without disturbing the decor.