Mike,
I have to jump in here as I think we're missing more points than a zebra has stripes.
Mike_Noren wrote:panaque wrote:The most immediate threat to the survival of H. zebra in the wild at this moment is overfishing for the aquarium trade.
How could overfishing possibly be a bigger threat than wholesale destruction of a species entire habitat?
A question of timing. The point being made is that the zebra could be fished out before the dam has an effect. This topic has a really narrow view on one species, the dam would likely wipe out a whole range of species and just becuase a species isn't blessed (?) with lovely colouration doesn't mean it is less deserving of a place in the ark.
Mike_Noren wrote:For comparison, collection for the aquarium trade is not known to have extinguished a single species. Ever.
True (I think) but then the zebra pleco is rather unusual. The point is wouldn't we all look rather bad if it WAS the first.
Mike_Noren wrote:It is however known to have saved dozens if not hundreds. Collection assigns a dollar value to fish which otherwise would be considered worthless. The *only* reason Nile perch hasn't been introduced in lake Malawi is that the c*****ds there generate revenue through export.
This one is rolled out a lot and I agree with it wholeheartedly, however the zebra pleco is different I think because it doesn't reproduce with the ferocity of a bunch of Malawi cichlids.
Mike_Noren wrote:panaque wrote:I find it incomprehensible that people who say we should continue to harvest an over exploited species still feel that they can complain about the Brazilian government for building dams.
That is like saying that you can not be concerned about the murder rate if you occasionally break the speed limit while driving.
Eh? I might have read this wrong, but when I read it was saying the total opposite? Panaque asked about the logic of people who complain about the dam but are happy to pay for imported fish which appear to be over fished.
As I work in the area of civic governance and have a lot to do with speeding offences, I'd suggest that anyone who thinks it's OK to break the speed limit (from time to time, like it's not going to hurt anyone, I was late for the hairdresser etc etc etc) should spend a half day in a city A&E ward watching mangled motorists come in. Anyway, that's a personal viewpoint and really rather off topic, so sorry, but when you've seen a real human leg hanging off, it does rather stick with you.
Anyway, more people are killed by motor "accidents" than murder, so shouldn't the logic applied from above be true also? More zebra plecos have been killed by collectors and aquarists than by dams (as yet!).
Mike_Noren wrote:panaque wrote:If you are concerned about the survival of these fish in the wild then you should start by wholeheartedly supporting a ban. Only then can you voice your protest about other threats.
Anyway, that is my humble opinion.
I'm sorry, but you clearly haven't understood what a hydro power dam means.
Agreed. I think, however, both the above points of view are rendered academic, solely from the viewpoint of the survival of this one species, if we aren't breeding them and being more excited by breeders offering groups for sale than when the next dodgy import is going to arrive.
How many posts on this forum about zebra pleco prices and how many about successful breeding attempts?
Jools