Need help confirming the identification of two Synodontis sp

Fogelhund · Post by **Fogelhund** » 19 Oct 2004, 04:15

I bought out the remaining stock of http://www.finnyas.com, and was lucky enough to pick up four Synodontis species, including these two species. They were all shipped as Syn. polli, but obviously these are not the same species. I have one of the fish I believe to be polli, and four of the fish I believe to be tanganaicae. Could someone please assist me in confirming the identity of these fish?

Thank You in advance.

Unidentified Synodontis species A

http://www.plecos.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=9

I think its Synodontis dhonti.

Unidentified Synodontis species B

http://www.plecos.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=11

I think this is Synodontis tanganiacae.

Mika · Post by **Mika** » 19 Oct 2004, 09:16

I think you are correct with both species. To me they looks too S.dhonti and S. tanganicae

Post by **Dinyar** » 19 Oct 2004, 14:42

Frankly, I'm not sure (despite having tried to get to the bottom of this question for three years).

But my first impression is that your "S. tanganaicae" looks like the fish in my tank that I call "S dhonti". I have never seen a fish that looks exactly like the specimen you call "S. dhonti", but I would not be surprised if it too is a local strain of "S. dhonti".

One thing I HAVE learned is that there is enormous local variability in all Tanganyika Synodontis species (which should not come as a surprise to Tang cichlid enthusiasts). Even the ichthyological collections of major museums are hopelessly confused.

Dinyar

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 19 Oct 2004, 15:12

ehm

the first link shows TWO different species; a small one with a looooong "horsenose" and fairly big spots and a big one with small spots.

maybe that small one is a "big spot dhonti" -if such a thing exists- or it is the elusive S lacustricolis?
Maybe it's a tanganaicae? some of THOSE in the catelog show that huge overhanging lip and the bulge-eye-stare....

none of them is a polli. if the big one is the same as the fish in the second link, you've got more dhonti's.

the second link shows S dhonti, but you got them labelled as "tanganicae".

polli's don't have that long "bent" horsenose, although they sometimes do have those big blurred spots. their upperlip is often more "upturned". an adult polli looks like it swims with its' mouth open, and the many teeth are very visible.

check out THIS DHONTI from the catelog, wich I spotted (and photographed) in a Burundi-mix and is now in the possession of Jolly-Polly.

Greggo · Post by **Greggo** » 19 Oct 2004, 22:00

Dinyar wrote:One thing I HAVE learned is that there is enormous local variability in all Tanganyika Synodontis species (which should not come as a surprise to Tang c*****d enthusiasts). Even the ichthyological collections of major museums are hopelessly confused.

Dinyar

This is very true as there are specimens in imports that I have seen that have characteristics of both species. The deeper you get into trying to id Tang Synos, the more frustrated you'll get.

I think that your fish "A" is S. dhonti and fish "B" is S. tanganaicae. The way I try to tell the two species apart is by looking at the eyes, dorsal fin, tail, barbels and color. Looking at photo "sm Synodontis A4.jpg"in your first link and comparing the two fish in it:

Eyes:
S. tanganaicae has larger diameter pupils compared to the smaller diameter pupils of S. dhonti. The top fish has a large diameter pupil compared to a lower fish's small diameter pupil. Top- S. tanganaicae, Bottom- S. dhonti

Dorsal:
S. tanganaicae has a longer, higher, shark fin like dorsal compared to the shorter S. dhonti.

Tail:
The black edging in the tail comes to a sharp point in S. tanganaicae. In S. dhonti, it is more rounded and broken edge. Your photos do not show the tail well in most of the S. tanganaicaes (Gheeze thats a hard word to type, can we rename this one?)

Barbels:
S. tanganaicae has very long barbels in comparison. If yours are recently imported, they may be a little roughed up from collection. In time the barbel length will return.

Color:
S. tanganaicae is brighter with more white edging to its fins. S. dhonti starts to go dark and lose its spots at around 5 to 6 inches. My largest S. tanganaicaes (8"+) are still brightly colored and with spots. Notice how in your photo the top fish is brighter and the lower fish is starting to go dark?

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 20 Oct 2004, 09:15

Hi Greggo

but that means that there are quite some S tanganaicae's among the pics in the catelog labelled as 'dhonti'.....

for example, the one I added.
It's nearing 6" and has all the spots! however, it has still short barbs and a darker coloration; with little -if any- white edging on the fins.....

Greggo · Post by **Greggo** » 20 Oct 2004, 13:59

Hi Sid,

I believe your photo is S. dhonti. It appears to be at the size where it is starting to go dark and lose its spots. It seems to be a slow process going from a S. multipunctatus color pattern to solid gray without spots.

Compare the two in this photo of mine:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/mo ... 634_10.php

The large S.dhonti below is about 7.5", the S. tanganaicae above is about 5" and appears similar in color to S. multi. My S. dhontis are growing at a glacial pace, about 1/4" per year, so the large dhonti in my photo may be 5 to 10 years older.

jolly_polli · Post by **jolly_polli** » 23 Dec 2004, 23:27

I own 5 syno's which we (SidGuppy and me) identified as Dhonti one of them is this one:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4 ... 8UYtXLdi2g

I've another one that just looks the same but the other three are a little different of color. The 1st is from Burundi the others are from ZaÃ¯re but I've still 2 of them which look the same. The others are slightly different. I'll try to make pictures but they are very shy. Maybe it helps...