Zebra pleco on the endangered list?

ZebraPleco · Post by **ZebraPleco** » 16 Jun 2004, 16:17

Hello,
I am sorry if this seems like yet another zebra pleco link and if this is topic have already been discussed, please forgive my poor searching skill because I can't find any info on this topic in the pass posts.

Anyway, I've just heard from one of my local forum in Canada that the zebra pleco have been put on the endangered species list and that imports for these pleco have been prohibited. The source of this news have not be verified, it's just a hearsay from one of my Local Fish Store. But having searched on the net for this news, I also came accross another forum that says they have also been put on the CITES II list in the US as well. Here's a quote :
"This came up last night at the Boston Aquarium Society. I learned that my Hypancistrus zebra (which won me 1st place in the bowl show, boo-yah) went CITES II in November. I was much distressed by this as I am gearing up to try breeding zebra. So, I sought out Scott Dowd of the New England Aquarium (also associated with Project Piaba), who was at the meeting, and I got the above information out of him."
http://www.predatoryfish.net/ibforums/i ... opic=45981
Maybe this explains why my LFS no longer import them.
I was wondering if anyone knows if their country are stopping the import of zebra pleco as well?

Post by **Silurus** » 16 Jun 2004, 16:58

Not according to CITES. No such info from the US Fish & Wildlife Service either.

Until this can be verified, it remains hearsay (maybe a marketing stunt to drive prices up?).

Post by **Barbie** » 16 Jun 2004, 17:37

While the numbers of zebra plecos being exported have dropped drastically in the last two years, I DID see them on an availability list just a few weeks ago, so they are definitely still available. Just very expensive, and few and far between. I was told that Brazil is controlling the export of them to try to let them have a chance to reestablish their numbers, and that accounts for their rarity, but it doesn't make much sense if they intend to dam the river they spawn in. Hopefully the rumors will be replaced with facts at some point. There always seems to be some new "theory" out about zebras, IME.

Barbie

davidkozak · Post by **davidkozak** » 16 Jun 2004, 19:40

Hi ZebraPleco,
Are you talking about the "price network" forum in Canada??

There's also at least one discussion about it going on at Pleco-Fanatics...
david

Monty · Post by **Monty** » 16 Jun 2004, 19:55

As a retailer I am as interested as anyone in the position with Zebra plecs but try as we might we have so far been unable to obtain any in 2004.

We did have some in December last year but none since.

2 weeks ago one availability list did have them marked available ( only 7 fish mind you !! ) and this was for all of us to try and get !! A full box of Zebras is normally about 18 fish !!

It goes without saying that we didn't get any and there is a possibility that the " so called availability " was only there to attract orders built around the Zebras or course.

Another Brazilian exporter does not have any on his list at all, so we can only wait and hope.

I am sure that when and if they are available the scarcity will definitely have driven the price up. The last price I was quoted was 250% of the last time we bought them !

for those of you with Zebras ........... breed them , its the way forward.

jj · Post by jj » 16 Jun 2004, 20:56

This old guy I meet and talked fish for a long time used to export a lot of fish from the area. The fish come from the same area as blue eyed plecos and yes there is a dam going up but the fish should still be able to be farmed. The guy said though the biggest problem is a guerrilla faction controls one of the best collection spots and unless you want to die for a fish i recommend you pay the price. At least they dont cost around a 1000 bucks a piece like other places in the world.

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 17 Jun 2004, 01:09

actually, zebra plecos are from rio xingu in brazil, well away from the colombian river that houses the blue eyed plecos. it's like saying that an alaskan salmon and a missisippi catfish are in the same area...

plecolover · Post by **plecolover** » 17 Jun 2004, 03:55

In Hongkong, some LFS are still importing Zebra plecos, but the unit price is quite high, US$110 in average. Furthermore, also found F1 Zebra plecos in market. The unit price is less expensive, US$81.

As per the information from an aquarium fish distributor, Zebra plecos are not available due to overfishing. Below is the link about this for your reference.

http://www.kencofish.com/fish.htm

jj · Post by jj » 17 Jun 2004, 19:44

i know everyone has got there opinions. i agree with you. im not much of a fish genius, i just like watching pretty ones that seem like art. but i can tell you this politics and money are the reason for extinctions of fish and making it hard to get them. but i agree with you on this case sorry for the misinformation.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 18 Jun 2004, 14:05

Hi JJ!

I think its a misconception that hobbyist fishkeepers endanger wild populations.
I just read an article in "Das Aquarium" (german fishkeepers magazine, invented LDA Numbers) that in most cases pollution and loss of habitat is the reason for extinction and not some hundreds of fishes being caught and exported.

Ive never been to Brasil or have seen a exporter station...but if I had something to say in such a company id be breeding these H.zebra like crazy in ponds or secured setups and not send my dear experienced divers/fishermen in the rapids of Rio Xingu...but maybe i miss something here...

ZebraPleco · Post by **ZebraPleco** » 18 Jun 2004, 17:04

Man this just keep getting more confusing.
Can some one who reads spanish translate this?
It's something about the Brazilian government banning the export of Zebra pleco.
Seems kinda legit, but since I am spanish stupid, I can't say much.
http://www.aquahobby.org/zeco/especial/ ... brados.pdf

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 18 Jun 2004, 21:26

Caol_ila wrote:Hi JJ!

I think its a misconception that hobbyist fishkeepers endanger wild populations.
I just read an article in "Das Aquarium" (german fishkeepers magazine, invented LDA Numbers) that in most cases pollution and loss of habitat is the reason for extinction and not some hundreds of fishes being caught and exported.

This is true - to date no single fish species has been extinguished by the ornamental fish hobby, but there are powerful forces at work to stop the trade in ornamental fishes anyway, as aquristics is seen as a luxury, and so an easier target than the real issues (pollution, habitat destruction, and destructive fishing methods).

Anyway, I think maybe you'll find this link interesting: http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/docs/lib ... speech.pdf

fishnut2 · Post by **fishnut2** » 18 Jun 2004, 22:20

Imports aren't banned in the US yet. I'm getting some next week. (personal stash) I'll be giving 100% effort to start breeding them, so hopefully...there'll be some available in the next 6 months. I'm new to plecos, so don't get your hopes up yet. But there's a lot of other breeders keying up for zebra spawns...I'm positive there'll be some tank-raised available in the near future!
Rich

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 18 Jun 2004, 23:16

Seems kinda legit, but since I am spanish stupid, I can't say much.

Shouldnt it be portugese? ...

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 19 Jun 2004, 00:49

plug it into altavista.com's translator... I'd do it, but no adobe on the computer since it was wiped, and I don't feel like downloading it right now.

Charly EON · Post by **Charly EON** » 19 Jun 2004, 14:57

Hello

According to the last meeting of IBAMA, ACEPOAM and ACEPO-PA exporters and amazonian ichtyologists, there WILL be soon a ban of export for this fish. The official text should be published soon.Bbesides overfishing, this speciesd is also threatened by the possible building of an electric dam on the Xingu River by Electronorte.

Tank bred specimens from France, Switzerkand, Germany start to show up here in France.

This is definetely whrere the future of this fish is.

Charly

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 20 Jun 2004, 10:22

a ban according to whom and to what penalty? Who is "publishing" this "ban".

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 20 Jun 2004, 12:35

patrickstockton wrote:a ban according to whom and to what penalty? Who is "publishing" this "ban".

I have no information on this particular species, but a large number of fish species are about to enter the CITES list, some of which are presently common aquarium fish.

The portuguese document linked to earlier, was a list of species considered to be in danger of extinction, and the text talked about the need for developing plans and taking measures to keep the species from being "overexploited".

With all endangered freshwater fish it is so that it is destructive fishing or habitat destruction which endangers or extinguishes them - see e.g. the extinction of the bicolor shark, various pupfishes, or the 17 fish species extinguished by the building of the Yellow River dam - because the life of a species weighs little compared to, say, a billion dollar electricity project.

However, even though the species has been brought to the brink of extinction by development or destructive fishing, the eventual ban on trading in the species of course only affects aquaristics and science.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 21 Jun 2004, 03:10

Hi!
Sorry a bit offtopic i think
ive never owned nor wanted to buy H.zebra because all the noise around this species has become rediculous over the last few years...its a whimpy black&white sucker that people break the bank for and others use this free spending mood. On a german forum a so called breeding pair went for 500 euros...need i say more? I wonder what the price range will be when a ban goes active?
You can get superb fish for a few euros and not fall for a hype like this.

As a community we should protest about the electronorte dam and not the ban

Post by **Silurus** » 21 Jun 2004, 03:14

ive never owned nor wanted to buy H.zebra

Hear, hear. Don't understand what all the hype is about loricariids, either.
Give me a real catfish any day.

Post by **Dinyar** » 21 Jun 2004, 03:35

Caol_ila wrote:As a community we should protest about the electronorte dam and not the ban

Well said. I agree entirely.

Dinyar

Post by **Barbie** » 21 Jun 2004, 06:49

Now now, don't force me to moderate the moderators

I personally think it's all a matter of personal preference and noone should talk down to people that are lori challenged either ;)

Barbie

blazespecv · Post by **blazespecv** » 21 Jun 2004, 07:26

What has been said so far regarding them is rather accurate. Although lately, there has been a resurgence of importing of L-46 into the U.S. I have seen several website obtaining small quantities of them, and a few people on aquabid have also obtained a few here and there. Recently when visiting an LFS in Maryland, I was surprised to see that they actually had in about 12 for $150 a piece. As far as them being CITES II, if they are, this is the first I've heard of it. And even being at a CITES II status, although they will become possibly even less frequently imported, they will still be legal to import and keep in the U.S. without a permit, since only CITES I fish are generally illegal to keep without some sort of permit. I am actually planning to give them a go, trying to get a good price on 8-12 since I believe I might have better luck with such a large ratio. If you search hard, there are some breeders in the U.S. who will sell 1-2" zebras for usually around 50-75 a piece, although they aren't the best shippers. Good luck.

polkadot · Post by **polkadot** » 21 Jun 2004, 08:43

Is it true then that F1s are already start showing in the market?

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 21 Jun 2004, 10:43

Caol_ila wrote:As a community we should protest about the electronorte dam and not the ban

I whole-heartedly agree.

Post by **Dinyar** » 21 Jun 2004, 15:03

Barbie wrote:Now now, don't force me to moderate the moderators I personally think it's all a matter of personal preference and noone should talk down to people that are lori challenged either ;)

Barbie

I wasn't dissing plÃ©cos, just trying to say that responsible aquarists should also concern themselves with biodiversity conservation. We are in the midst of one of the greatest mass extinctions in the 4-billion year history of this planet, and this time the cause is one species -- us. It's like standing in the middle of the great library of Alexandria while it goes up in flames. It may be too late to put out the fire, but we should at least have some sense of where we are and what we are losing.

If some importer with a credible track record told me that x% of the price of every aquarium fish they sold was going to be dedicated to conserving that species' native habitat, I would be happy to pay more for fish from such a source. Throttling back exports of a price-inelastic species like H. zebra could conceivably achieve a similar purpose (though that does not seem to be true in this case).

Dinyar

blazespecv · Post by **blazespecv** » 21 Jun 2004, 16:44

As to the question of whether or not F1s are present, they are in some areas of the U.S. more so than others. There are some breeders across the country who have gotten constant and prolific spawns, you just need to look hard for them. Most of them will ship too, so even if you don't live near one, you can probably obtain some still. Usually the majority of ones you see on availability lists are still F-0 though. And about Dinyar talking about the whole issue of us wiping out different fish/animals, well said. Although in some cases we can be helpful, more often we are harmful. Although in the case of Lake Victoria and cichlids, some of them only now exist in aquarists aquariums, due to mass extinction and hybridizing going on in that lake. Importers that support conservation, even to the point of spending much of their own personal money, such as Ron at fishpost, is definately a step in the right direction. Really, more zebras need to be bred so that the wild-caughts can lessen in demand, since no one is really sure of the numbers at all besides that they are likely very small in the wild. Because if things continue in this direction, it is possible if not very likely that L-46 could hit CITES I, which would mean unless you went through some insane process for permits, many hobbyists will not be able to obtain these plecos, let alone keep them. Good example of a CITES I animal which is commonly smuggled into the U.S. would be asian aros, which are often sold for thousands for one tiny fry. And zebras no doubt will reach that level, because people are always willing to drop absurd amounts of money for something that they want, and care little for laws and such. So, summing up my long stream of nonsense, I think L-46s currently in hobbyist hands need to be bred more, in order to lessen up on demand, price, and to allow the wild stock to be a bit more at peace. In all honesty, I would rather have F-1 zebras than wilds, less that can go wrong.
-James

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 21 Jun 2004, 17:27

We just bought a cites animal for my future mother in law (Testudo hermanni boettgeri) and it needs registered parents, needs to be registered itself and a photo record has to be kept (1 new photo a year).
Anybody has an idea if this is handled the same with fishes?

pleco_farmer · Post by **pleco_farmer** » 22 Jun 2004, 00:58

blazespecv, which shop in MD? If they were small, they may have been mine, if so they are F2's.

blazespecv · Post by **blazespecv** » 22 Jun 2004, 08:06

Aquarium center. That store has been going straight down the tubes since they changed management, overpricing and killing stock, mismarked fish, etc. But then we were there buying some supplies and lo and behold a tank full of zebras. We assumed f1 or f2 due to them being small. If they are your indeed your fish, I wish to talk to you.

Zebra pleco on the endangered list?

Zebra pleco on the endangered list?

They are not endangered!

yeah