Catfishes with large Hemichromis spp.

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 19 Jun 2004, 04:06

Other than plecos and synos (which didnt work), any ideas on keeping cats with 4"+ Hemi. frempongi and fasciatus. Each species has their own 135g with 7+ of each in them. They are very messy feeders(will only eat live and frozen currently) and pounded the synos I tried. Id like something that will eat left over krill, etc. My plecs dont do a great job at this.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 19 Jun 2004, 18:35

You might try some Banjo catfish, e.g. . I think the cichlids would just ignore them.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 20 Jun 2004, 11:40

no they will not; I know the "Five Star General", and that Banjo will be ripped to pieces!

just stick to the Hemichromis, please!

if you want catfish in with them, get yourself a nice 2,5 meter tank of about 800 liters and it can be done.

this is one of THE most agressive cichlids known to man.....it has a huge breeding territory and NO fishes will be tolerated in there; period.

in a moderately sized tank (in this case well up to 8 feet), the whole tank will be a breeding territory, so figure.

catfish are NOT cleaners! the FISHKEEPER should be the one who cleans, NOT the fish!

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 20 Jun 2004, 13:50

Sid Guppy, I do not need to be lectured on whether or not catfish are cleaners or not. Im simply looking for a fish that will coexist with these fish (BTW, the five star general is H. elongatus, not frempongi or fasciatus). I love catfish and most of my large tanks have catfish and a pair of other fish. I have large tanks dedicated to cats as well. One benefit of catfish is that they clean up the leftover food that mid and topwater fish leave behind...that is the point to the thread. The fasciatus are very aggressive, but the smaller, less aggressive cousins (frempongi) are tolerating giant danios as dithers at the moment (the jewels are near their max size of 6").

Im aware of their aggression...these fish arent cheap and I wouldnt have spent the money to ship these fish in if I were clueless.

Back to the post, if anyone has had luck keeping these types of jewels with cats, please respond. If youve never tried to keep cats with these fish or never kept these species of jewels, please hold your responses. Im looking for something constructive.

Rita · Post by **Rita** » 20 Jun 2004, 20:05

I suspect that you will receive greater satisfaction from posting your questions at predatoryfish.net.

Rita

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 20 Jun 2004, 21:00

Yes and no... Not too many folks in the states have seen frempongi and fasciatus. To my knowledge, this is only the second time theyve been imported in the last 10 years or so. They are around in Europe though and this site has more worldwide exposure typically than predfish. I just figure Id give it a shot. I have the same deal posted on predfish, and I havent gotten a response. Thanks for the advice, though.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 26 Jun 2004, 18:04

sidguppy wrote:no they will not

My reason for suggesting it is that I accidentally kept a Banjo with an Asian Red tail for several weeks (until I noticed the Banjo was there). No apparent harm was caused. Banjos (and doradids) don't look or act much like pelagic fish, so very territorial fish don't tend to perceive them as a threat.

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 27 Jun 2004, 04:05

Thanks for the response. I wasnt going to try the banjo, just in case it probably wouldnt defend itself. They do leave the plecs alone, but plecs dont do anything with krill. Im going to try a raphael cat or amblydoras hancocki this weekend. There is a lot of rocks and caves, so Im not too worried. The Hemi. frempongi seem very interested in chasing each other around and leave everything else alone while the fasciatus have hammered everything-the latter will be going without the cleanup crew.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 29 Jun 2004, 18:22

Banjos, besides looking like dead leaves, 'defend' themselves by feigning death. Anything trying to chase them gets confused or loses interest. I think this is why mine survived in a tank with a Hemibagrus.

Converting · Post by **Converting** » 29 Jun 2004, 22:16

How about something less likely to come out in the open during the day like Raphaels or Leiocassis siamensis.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 30 Jun 2004, 12:34

not good.

the catfish "most likely to adapt to cichlids" are tough Synodontis, like nigrita, ocellifer, eupterus, obesus, nigromaculatus, schall or angelicus.

If the Syno's get pounded upon, a Bagrid and especially a Doradid (!) will get ripped to pieces; something I've seen too often already......

Converting · Post by **Converting** » 30 Jun 2004, 14:26

not good.

the catfish "most likely to adapt to c*****ds" are tough Synodontis, like nigrita, ocellifer, eupterus, obesus, nigromaculatus, schall or angelicus.

If the Syno's get pounded upon, a Bagrid and especially a Doradid (!) will get ripped to pieces; something I've seen too often already......

I disagree. I keep large aggressive cichlids with Bagrid and Doradid. If they are largely nocturnal they really pose no threat to the cichlids during the day time it works. Even when some of the doradid gets larger and openly cruise the tank there does not seem to be an issue.

Not all cichlids are territorial killers. I find more often they are accepting of catfish than anything else. There is the some that won't live with anything, but all my cichlid live with some sort of catfish and I keep aggressive species.

Besides Fishman is talking about west african species, not rift lake. Totally different mentalities.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 30 Jun 2004, 15:12

Not all c*****ds are territorial killers.

Hi!

I find that even small sicklids can be very agressive towards cats even if they are bigger in 2 cases: 1.if they have a destinct color patter i.e. stripes or 2. if they share the same food/hiding places.
For example my Victoria Haplos regularly attacked my L15 Peckoltias before i moved them out (my guess is the stripe pattern at about same size) but they have "respect" for my 24 cm (triple their size) Synodontis acanthomias.
My actual point is that the tankmate should likely be of much bigger size?
If this dont work get some snails...
Btw my plecos love krill. What kind of plecos did you have in there?
Im really amazed that the Hemichromis are even more agressive than the Haplochromids.

Post by **Dinyar** » 30 Jun 2004, 22:20

Think outside the box! Why get hung up on catfish as tankmates for your Hemichromis? Since you're obviously into large predatory fish, why not something like Hydrocynus goliath? In the case of H. fasciatus, it would even be more or less biotopicaly correct.

Converting · Post by **Converting** » 30 Jun 2004, 22:29

Think outside the box! Why get hung up on catfish as tankmates for your Hemichromis? Since you're obviously into large predatory fish, why not something like Hydrocynus goliath? In the case of H. fasciatus, it would even be more or less biotopicaly correct.

Hopefully that was a joke. I am really not sure what the issue is with this post.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 30 Jun 2004, 22:55

I am really not sure what the issue is with this post.

I think hes catching up where sid ended....no tankmates

Converting · Post by **Converting** » 30 Jun 2004, 23:02

think hes catching up where sid ended....no tankmates

Lame......Good moderating on this one by the way.

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 01 Jul 2004, 01:59

Wow, I havent checked this post in a couple days... Lots of activity. To answer all of the questions, etc. (yes, I understand this is a catfish forum)

The jewels are in 135g 6' tanks with heavy rockwork. There are 5 pairs of 3-4" frempongi and 7 3"+ fasciatus. Each have their own identical tanks. The plecs I have are the typical 'snow king' plec you find here in florida. P. inistisi (sp.)? I believe..not too up on my latin names for plecs. They are 6"+ but although are fond of the krill, They seem to take forever to eat one piece. The H. fasciatus is widely respected as being the most aggressive african cichlid known for its size (arguably, of course-along the lines of petrochromis spp.) . They will kill pretty much anything active in the tank, 8" tinfoils did not work with these 3"+ fish. Hydrocynus spp will not work. They do leave the plecs alone, so Im staying with them.

There arent many folks who have kept frempongi, so personal accounts and info in books is non existant. So far, they are super aggressive towards their own but have left the 8" tinfoils completely alone. Ive had luck putting Amblydoras hancocki in the tank. Along with the plecs, Im done until spawning time takes place-which looks to be soon. Ill separate the pairs out into divided breeder tanks and put the hancocki and plecs in a community tank.

That should make the catfishplanet.com masses happy.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 01 Jul 2004, 02:03

Hi!

Just out of curiousity:
Ive bred my Thick Skin Likes and found no privates or lfs who wanted to take the offspring because these agressive fish dont sell well at all.
Whatcha gonna do with all the fry youll get from 12 breeding pairs if they are even more agressive?

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 02 Jul 2004, 01:07

Im only planning on keeping a couple pairs of frempongi and one pair of fasciatus...Im not sure the fasciatus will get there or not. There is a market for frempongi here as theyve never been available in teh 25 years Ive been in the hobby. There are a number of folks that have fasciatus all of a sudden, so the market will be flooded soon. Im not in the hobby for the money, god knows. Ill be able to sell to a couple cichlid wholesalers and the hobbyists around the country. Ive already gotten standing orders for a few hundred fry. One pair is formed now and the fem has the tube down...should be any day now. After the initial few spawns, the market will be flooded as there arent many who want these fish, due to aggression. Itll be fun spawning a fish Ive waited for 25 years to get.