flash zebra?(B juruense)

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 11 Apr 2004, 13:16

can anyone tell me about the collection locations of B juruense? Know the fish being sold as the flash zebra is collected from the rio nannay and was just wondering if the fish know as B juruense was collected nearby or from a completely different area? any information on this is appreciated.

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 16 Apr 2004, 16:28

no one know anything about these two fish?

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 17 Apr 2004, 00:57

to the best of my knowledge B. juruense and the Flash Zebra are the same thing... perhaps I'm mistaken though. I don't put much stock in common names.

steez138 · Post by **steez138** » 17 Apr 2004, 09:34

As of what I have heard, the b juruense and the flash zebra are the same fish taken from different river systems and from what I have heard the "flash zebra" when shipped to the awuaria trade and is put in any other water then the particular water from its river system loses the bright coloration that makes it known as a flash zebra instead of the b juruense at least 95 % of the time. I have owned a small juruense and am currently about to buy a 14 inch specimen and I can say they are an incredible looking fish. In the Atlas of freshwater and marine catfishes (the catfish bible) the two different colorations of the juruense are both labeled as the same species and as of today I have heard of no further studies to distinguish the two apart.undefined

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 17 Apr 2004, 09:43

i know they are supposed to be the same,but how do you get two fish the same from two rivers so far apart, without there being the same fish in the areas in between?

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steez138 · Post by **steez138** » 17 Apr 2004, 10:26

Its not that they are seperated totally I hear it is just water conditions and the minerals etc.. in some river systems compared to others that give a brighter coloration, besides color they are the same fish (by by color it is the same just a "high gold") read up and look at their lictures in the "Atlas of Frshwater and Marine Catfishes by Dr. Burgess" great book, I'll try and post the three different variations of the B. Juruense on the catfish forum on predatory fish.com from the book so you can see what I am saying. I'll scan in the text as well. I have the same screen name on Pfish.com as I do Pcatfish.com

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 17 Apr 2004, 10:58

i have the catfish atlas also have pix of B juruense and" flash".know "flash" comes from the rio nannay and its waters are very soft, but even the shape looks different "flash"seems to be much deeper bodied,and even the markings on B juruense are different there bars only seen to be verticalwhere as "flash" seem more diagonal.

p.s wouldnt believe everything you read in TFH books.

steez138 · Post by **steez138** » 18 Apr 2004, 06:26

I don't believe that that pattern differnece is enough to call it a different species and as for body shape, they have a much ddeper body shape as they get larger with both, once they hit a larger sixe their body shape drastically changes.[/i]

DeepFriedIctalurus · Post by **DeepFriedIctalurus** » 19 Apr 2004, 20:09

steez-

Would the B.juruense shown on the cover of Burgess' atlas be the fish being called a "flash zebra"?
Most others I see have a much less pronounced pattern than this..

Tyler

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 19 Apr 2004, 23:48

Actually, the fish on the front of the catfish atlas is a somewhat nice speciment, in my book. if you look on page 604 they've got both types of juruense being discussed here, the standard and slightly less attractive version in the second row, first column, and the more attractive pattern on first column and 3rd row is the nicer. both are listed as B. juruense. the body depth really seems to come with size.

2121 · Post by **2121** » 20 Apr 2004, 04:25

as what my importer say in peru b.juerense "flash zebra" is found in the nanay river and has a higher back than the regular b.juerens with bright coloration.b.juerense "flash zebra"is rare and is hard to catch.i will found out for you where regular b.juerense is caught and what part of the river.

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 20 Apr 2004, 06:26

thanks 2121 now were getting somewhere

didnt put this up to be put down as some idiot who doesnt know what he's talking about.just wanted us to pool our knowledge to see if we can put it to good use,and come up with some answer's.thanks again 2121 looking forward to reply.

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 21 Apr 2004, 04:44

Wayne, that was uncalled for. We're trying to help. You need to learn to accept that if you're going to put out a question, you ought to be open to answers. Your reaction was rude and is likely to prevent others from helping you in the future. What is so unbelievable about it being a regional variant?

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 21 Apr 2004, 05:16

sorry if you took that personally

wasnt getting at you.wanted answers with some thought behind them,just seemed to me some answers were" im right" and thats it with no reasoning behind them.i do believe in regional variations,and im not saying they are a different sp.i look for answers all over only posted on here cos im stumped.science wouldnt be anywhere without the questioning things just cos someone says its this or that or cant be done,doesbnt mean thats the end of it.sorry again S allen that you seem to have took what i said to heart.didnt call anyone in my post think you have read it wrong,meant i was the idiot not anyone else.

steez138 · Post by **steez138** » 21 Apr 2004, 07:43

Sorry it took so long to reply but yes that would be known as the flash zebra, a give away is the almost marbled gold and balck pattern on the caudal fin

steez138 · Post by **steez138** » 21 Apr 2004, 08:07

sorry if you thought my replys were not backed up before, I am going on things I have read along with info from various pim enthusiasts, I wasn't sure if you wanted the exact river system that the jurunse came from.

Here are some posts from another website of what people had to say about them and I quote: the "flash zebra" is collected only from the Rio Nanay river(very very soft water),, the biggest mystery is that once they are in the tanks here they lose their yellow color and turn more brownish,,, I am still trying to find out what is it in the water that is causing the fish to lose the yellow color,, I might be getting a 2 foot flash zebra soon,, hopefully it will retain its beautiful natural color. I will keep you guys posted.

Yeah, I've always heard of b.Jurense being called flash zebras- I think it's just color variation, could have just been the mood the fish was in while the pic was taken too. Whatever the case, I just bought one last friday and my lfs is holding it for me till this friday and powerfeering it before I take it home (It's tiny), I hope mine matures like that.

It is strange that the P Menchacai from the river Nanay has the same gold yellow color as the jurense. A normal tiger is much briter yellow.

In my experience the name has been used interchangeably- I know there has been a lot of discussion lately about the difference- they are the same species and have not been distinguished as subspecies yet so I call them one in the same- The one I have is the ugly one- but from what I've read/heard the bright ones 9 times out of 10 loose their color in the home aquarium which furtheres my oppinion that they are the same fish. I'm just speaking from my understanding of the fish- to me there is only 1 kind of juruense- if anytihing i think it's a color morph or something like the equivelent of race for catfish- It dosen't matter- in the lingo of last year I have a flash zebra- in the lingo of this month I have a b. juruense with no common name- I don't care- The fish is cool anyways

Exactly! So why even use the term "flash zebra". I, too, think this is just a color morph and deserves no special distinction. The very first juruense ever brought to the US were very gold in color (I have the old TFH issue around here somewhere) and they were called B. juruense. I do think some importers use this term to get a premium for there fish but from what I've heard, most lose their color.

regular juruense go for around 90bucks alone at 4". Flash zebras are a sub speices of juruense. "Brachyplatystoma sp.". I would say they are the same speices ,but just found in a different location/river. Like the different morphs of the motoro ray, etc.

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 21 Apr 2004, 10:09

hi steelz i to go on pred if you look there think there is two curent threads on this fish,one i startedand one your freind.think the pic i posted on there of a "flash"persuaded your friend to buy one.also some more pix on there of the person who grew his on and it never lost its colour.if they are the same fish fine,but surely if you have the "flash" one you want it to stay that colour,and if you keep the B juruense in the conditions of a "flash"will it go bright?only want to try and find out whats the difference,cos obviously there is,is it to do with water conditions,regional variations,or some other aspect,like the colour of the water.is it caught in white water,black,slow,fast.lots of questions,not enough answers.lets work together for the answers.

steez138 · Post by **steez138** » 22 Apr 2004, 00:20

katfishguy (nishant of rarecatfish.net) said he was currently working on why the fish loses the color most of the time, he siad he would post answers once he has found them, besides him looking at it, I haven't read or been told anyhting else about the variations of the fish that has been published since 91

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 23 Apr 2004, 02:28

On the subject, but slightly off I suppose... Nanay seems to have odd color variants of many species... take this potamotrygon motoro.

I'm not sure if there's a population of these fish, or if this one is just a freak.

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 23 Apr 2004, 22:50

bit more information ive just picked up.B juruense is collected from the rio jurua? anyone now where this is?how far from the nannay,and links to some maps so i could see for myself.

2121 · Post by **2121** » 25 Apr 2004, 07:10

o.k. guys this is what i have learned so far.my importer told me that the flash zebra found in the nanay river is called brachyoplatystoma sp."nanay river" and the one found in the amazon river is called bracyoplatystoma juerense "flash zebra".this is where the confusion comes in that word flash zebra that has been given to both species actually only belongs to the juerense cat and not the b.ap"nany river".in japan they are doiing DNA genetics in both species and once i learned more,i will post again.but for now they are both different sp.of catfish.

wayne the pain · Post by **wayne the pain** » 25 Apr 2004, 09:12

hey 2121 that is a great information,so good of you to go out your way to find this out.

maybe some of the members on here who understand japanese will be able to search jap sites for the info.does this mean there could be three fish with similar markings?
Brachyplatystoma juruense
Brachplatystoma "flash zebra"
Brachyplatystoma "nannay"
this happens all the time in the animal kingdom,only have to look at cory's.they ars loads of very similar looking cory's.suppose it comes down to it being sucessful,if the shirt fits wear it,so to speak.lets keep up the good work.

2121 · Post by **2121** » 25 Apr 2004, 16:16

no there is only 2 species not 3.
brachyplatystoma juerense "flash zebra"
brachyplatystomasp sp."nanay river"

we will see i have received a 15in. brachyplatystoma sp."nanay river"and so far his marking is yellow and he has been in captivity for a while before even shipped to me.i will found out more about this sp.as soon as my importer tells me something new.i keep you guys updated.

TiGrInUs · Post by **TiGrInUs** » 26 Apr 2004, 04:28

hmmmm

Brachyplatystoma sp. (Flash zebra)...the rio nanay species

Brachyplatystoma juruense.... If the juruense is already labled "juruense" why would they call it a flash. This doesnt make any sense. Im pretty sure the "flash" are the rio nanay speices.

Maybe I am wrong...i have to get Nishant to look at this thread. I just wrote a speices profile on B. juruense for predatoryfish. I might have to edit it.

ps...i think they should all be called Brachyplatystoma juruense.

Atleast untill the DNA tests come back.

2121 · Post by **2121** » 27 Apr 2004, 01:21

the word "flash zebra"in the juerense cat is an a.k.a.for example a m.tigrinus.a tigrinus have a a.k.a.as zebra shovelnose catfish.so in the juerense cat that is the a.k.a.or a common name.

fishman33437 · Post by **fishman33437** » 24 May 2004, 01:31

As stated above....the difference is location, shape and color. I purchased a flash zebra from aquatechnics.net in Miami. I live in S. Fl and drove to the warehouse. He had both juruense and flash zebra at 15"+ and smaller. The difference in color was astounding. The flash were very yellow while the juruense werent too colored. Alberto from aquatechnics collects from the Rio Nanay system and told me that its simply a location. He seemed to know his stuff. I recommend going on the website and asking the question?

flash zebra?(B juruense)

flash zebra?(B juruense)

from my knowledge

Its not that they are seperated

I don't believe

yes it is

sorry wayne

katfishguy