Any tips on how to care for L239 Panaque Sp. Blue

Marshel · Post by **Marshel** » 12 Apr 2004, 07:31

I just get some ones.

Somebody says that they need little acid water.

What do they like to eat? And the best water parameters?

Thanks in advance.

Post by **Janne** » 12 Apr 2004, 09:36

In one earlier topic Shane wrote they are a blackwater species and in my attempt to spawn these
they will only show interest to spawning in low pH and soft water with good circulation.
They are not a Panaque either: http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/lorica ... i/42_f.php
I keep mine at pH 6.0 and a temp. around 27-28 C, give them mostly frozen foods and some shrimp pellets and also some greens...the favorite food are cyclops.
Last year they did a seriuos attempt to spawn but that failed so this year (right now) I hope for success.

Janne

Marshel · Post by **Marshel** » 12 Apr 2004, 10:39

Thanks Janne. Wish you could spawn them this year.

In my sense, L239 may like vegetables more than meat. May I have confused with other pleco. I will try. Thanks.

I heard that L239 is very hard to show its blue color. Do you have any good method to make them pretty and nice.

joern · Post by **joern** » 12 Apr 2004, 11:34

Hi Marshel,

Marshel wrote: In my sense, L239 may like vegetables more than meat.

I agree with. But they don't take every vegetables. They like potatoes more than zuccini, parrots are not taken. Also apples are eaten. Mine get frozen bloodworms, frozen shrimps (from the kitchen, cut into small pieces), shrimp-pellets, Spirulina-tabs, granalute food for diskus.

Marshel wrote:I heard that L239 is very hard to show its blue color. Do you have any good method to make them pretty and nice.

no idea to keep them really "blue". Mine looks like this guys: http://mitglied.lycos.de/panaque/hobbies1.html click "Fischfotos". No own pictures in the moment.

Water is about 3 to 4 GH and 0 to 2 KH, ph between 6 and 6.5.
To the water the fruits of an alder, Alnus glutinosa, is added which is the same effect as Sea almaond leaves. Low ph nad high humidic / tannic acids might feel them even better, which causes a slightly more blue coloration. When feeling bad, it's more a dark grey.

In the first month they were very shy, they were really passiv. It's much better now, sometimes a little curious. The male kicked out a L134 form it's cave, but normaly he is outside of that cave.They are more active on day or early evening than the L134.

Marshel · Post by **Marshel** » 13 Apr 2004, 04:07

Thanks. Joern.

Very good information for me. This pleco is really new for me.

I keep them in the aquarium with ph 7.5-8.0. I think I need to add some acid material to lower my pH. For hardness, I have not tested it.

For goods, I feed them with zuchinni and cucumber now. I think I may switch to Potato. Wish they like. Of course I will feed them blood worm and other meat food.

Do they like bogwood or other caves setting?

joern · Post by **joern** » 13 Apr 2004, 07:22

Janne wrote:...the favorite food are cyclops.

Hi Janne,

how do you feed cyclops ? Living or frozen ?
What size are your spezimen ?

Marshel,

you should try several vegetables and fruits. And make several attemps, sometime they have to learn, that "the new thing" in tank is food. Also mango works.
And don't leave potatoes to long in your tank, max two days. It's bad for water quality, when you leave it longer inside (you will know if you take a smell).

Haven't tried doggy-food yet. They take pellets for rabbits or guinea-pigs, but it's not their favarite food ( the snails are even faster !

)

Marshel · Post by **Marshel** » 13 Apr 2004, 09:01

Sometime frozen and sometime live bloodworm.

Mine are about 10cm.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 13 Apr 2004, 09:44

parrots are not taken

Feeding parrots would be quite expensive and messy with all the feathers

Post by **Janne** » 13 Apr 2004, 21:36

I feed them frozen cyclops and my two pairs are between 8 to 10 cm.
And they are very pitty to vegetables...except my shrimpmix.

About pellets for rabbits, if you have any Baryancistrus species...try it on them, mine love it.

Janne

joern · Post by **joern** » 14 Apr 2004, 08:54

Hello,

take a look at Larry Vires lesson on reproduction: http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... ecture.htm
there you will find also additional info's on feeding.

Up to now, I havn't seen any traces of feeding on the wood pieces...and really wondering about that. The like Echinodorus, but not Sagittaria, Cryptocoryne, Aponogeten. Anubias even when they are very hungry...
Also oak and b leaves are taken, not very much, but they take it.

Janne wrote:... and my two pairs are between 8 to 10 cm.

My pair is slightly larger (10 to 12cm).
And very nice to hear, that there is someone with real spanning attemps...up to now I dominatley heard bad news on ths species:
shy (yes, it was in the first months)
low ligt species (oh yes, it is, like most plecos...),
very sensitive to water quality changes (to be accepted)
difficult to feed (havn't found the optimum yet..but still one the way...)
to be lost after a few month (lost one male after about 10 days, the others do live much longer..)...

This gives me some hope to keep them even longer and have some fun with them in the future...and even later probably some spanning attemps .....

Post by **Janne** » 14 Apr 2004, 22:02

When it comes to L-239 I maybe dont agree with Larry on the feedings and I can tell you for sure that mine dont eat..wood.
They are healthy and still looking blue after 18 month and not so shy anymore, they dont hide when I feed them when I'm watching and study them like they did in the beginning and the male are no longer nervous when he lays in the cave and I use my flashlight to check him out.
One is for sure when it comes to Loricariidae's...they are sensitive to Nitrates and if you make sure to keep the water quality high with water changes they are very hard and not so difficult to keep and breed.

Janne

joern · Post by **joern** » 16 Apr 2004, 06:34

Hi Janne

Janne wrote:When it comes to L-239 I maybe dont agree with Larry on the feedings and I can tell you for sure that mine dont eat..wood.

thanks for this post. I was already afraid there could be something wrong with my tank set up or even the fish.

Janne wrote:... when he lays in the cave and I use my flashlight to check him out.

Mine is outside ...probably it's slightly a little bit to small (3 to 4 cm diameter) for him (it was set for the L134). What sort of cave do you use ?

Janne wrote:One is for sure when it comes to Loricariidae's...they are sensitive to Nitrates and if you make sure to keep the water quality high with water changes they are very hard and not so difficult to keep and breed.

And high oxygen contents may be important too, I believe. I run theses Venturie-devices at the filters to blow air into the water, oxigen content is about 7 to 8 mg/l which is close to saturation at 28' C temperature.
Nutrients in the water can be hold low by flowting plants, I use Lemna and Ceratophyllum, and take away weekly an area of about 20 x 30 cm of Lemna and about 1 to 1,5 Meters length of Ceratophyllum-plants.
They also give some shadow, it seems to me that the plecos feel moore secure then...

Post by **Janne** » 16 Apr 2004, 19:57

I make my caves of clay pipes cut and glued together with black silicone for the right dimension, for the L-239 they are...4,5x3x18 cm.

Janne

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 20 Apr 2004, 08:25

Here are a few pictures of my Ancistrinae L-239 "Blue Panaque"
the third is the best pic IMHO.

http://www.blutosports.com/fish/blue/blue1.jpg
http://www.blutosports.com/fish/blue/blue2.jpg
http://www.blutosports.com/fish/blue/blue3.jpg

I bought him as a "wild" fish at about 10cm. I've seen him (or her?) active at times when feeding algae wafers. But have never witnessed feeding. I've had him for 2 months so i'm assuming he is eating some wafer. I tried some raw potato today, noy sure if he liked it yet or not.

As for coloration. I haven't noticed much change. He is very blue. With sky-blue fins. The pics might not do justice but they were they best i could get. It does have a gorgeous purple/pink blotched belly. But very rarely shows it.

Definitly likes the upper half of tank behind or under a rock. I have a HUGE rock pile for them and my africans.

And i have seen him on my root wood at times. Not sure if he's eating it or not but i have a cool picture (not on server yet) with Royal, Clown, Nugget and Blue Panaque all on the same piece of wood chillin' together!

I would love any further discussion on feeding and what is successful. I'm a little worrried i'm not hooking him up wih the right stuff...
He was $50 (US) after all, and my LFS said he's only sold 2 in ten years, so "don't hold my breath" to get another. I want to make sure i dont lose him after a few months of owning him.

joern · Post by **joern** » 20 Apr 2004, 09:18

Hi Patrick

patrickstockton wrote:I bought him as a "wild" fish at about 10cm.

It looks a little bit like "him". Watch Shane's pictures at: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catalog/lo ... i/42_f.php the lower line of pictures show a male. The interopercular oodontes a quite well to see and should be well expressed at a male of 10cm size. Notice, that they are not blue ! But not always so nice to see than on theses pictures.

patrickstockton wrote:Definitly likes the upper half of tank behind or under a rock. I have a HUGE rock pile for them and my africans.

Mine like this place to. And are even afraid (or angry) when doing water changes.....They sleep behind a lager piece of wood very close to the water surface. And this is not because of low oxygen, this is high in my basin.

patrickstockton wrote:I would love any further discussion on feeding and what is successful. I'm a little worrried i'm not hooking him up wih the right stuff...

I will gave a translation of my post in L-welse later (link see here: http://www.forum.planetcatfish.com/viewtopic.php?t=6501) somewhat later. And go to ask for permission for the parallel thread for vegetables food for all plecos).

patrickstockton wrote:He was $50 (US) after all

Here in Germany it was 50,-â?¬ which is quite the same. But it arives Germany from time to time, but even rare..

It's really nice to have such a discussion on this rare species ! thank's to everyone !

Post by **Janne** » 20 Apr 2004, 19:34

patrickstockton,

You have a female L-239.

Janne

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 21 Apr 2004, 01:36

thanks everybody! Mine is definitley developing odontodes that are a brilliant metallic gold color. Similar to the sheen on my L190 Royal. I'll try to get pictures. Do the presence of these definitly mean its a male? How about on a Royal?

Post by **Janne** » 21 Apr 2004, 21:03

Even females get small odontodes both on the gills and on the pectoral spines and yours are still a female. Males get enormous odontodes compaire to the female...almost 1 inch (15-25 mm) and when you see one...you will be sure that is a male.

Janne

INXS · Post by **INXS** » 22 Apr 2004, 03:44

Janne,
do the odontodes stay the same size or do they get longer and later shorter when the breeding cycle fades?

The reason I ask is that after reading this thread I looked at mine and the odontodes were average yet I do remember some time ago looking at the fish and seeing enormous hairgrowth on the pectorals.

Post by **Janne** » 22 Apr 2004, 21:06

That is correct, they change under the season and also if the water quality drops but males have much more visible odontodes and the female look the same all time (almost).
Now is the right time to try breeding them and for a few month on...start to do regulary water changes and increase the current and you will soon see your male with huge odontodes again

Janne

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 24 Apr 2004, 11:34

it appears mine loves potato and cucumber even more..!