Help ..........

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 31 Mar 2004, 17:55

NIGHTMARE

I posted a message the other day stating my queen arabesque had died for no reason.....

well it just got worse.........

My male has now died along with a big male malatonia lacustrus, siamese loach and 7 cardinals.
As before I have tested the water and everything is normal but I have still done a 40%water change.

I am at a loss as to what is causing my fish to suddenly die

Any ideas anyone ?

Post by **Barbie** » 31 Mar 2004, 18:25

Can you give us actual test results for your parameters? You'll have a much better chance of getting help that will do you some good.

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
gH
kH
Temp

All of those can attribute greatly to problems. How often do you do water changes? How long has the tank been set up? How much water do you change when you do them?

We'd love to help, but just telling us they died doesnt' really give us anything to go on.

Barbie

Elspeth · Post by **Elspeth** » 31 Mar 2004, 20:11

Oh, I am so sorry to hear this!

In addition to Barbie's excellent suggestion about giving us all water parameters, please consider re-testing if all really is "normal". If I suspect something's amiss and my usual tests don't show it, I take a water sample to a LFS for a second opinion. I have heard of cases where everything tested just fine, but one of the tests was not working properly.

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 02 Apr 2004, 04:36

Sorry about the loss..

I would like to add...

What size is your tank?
What type of filter(s) do you have?
Any powerheads or airbubbles?
What are it's tank mates?
How long have this tank been running?
Any changes prior to the deaths?

If all the readings are normal, I would probably assume low DO (dissolved oxygen). Bottom dwellers would normally suffer first.

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 05 Apr 2004, 13:31

SORRY about not getting back straight away .......... I have been having problems with my home computer and I had to get it sorted. Thanks very much for your replies and sympathies, I was (am still) gutted when it happened

here is (hopefully) everything you asked :

4'x2'x1' tank with lots of mopani wood, caves, (some) plants, small pea gravel.
UGF running the length of the tank with 2 power heads attached and a Fluval 3+ Internal filter.
It has been running for 2 years now with no problems...............

pH - 7.6
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Ammonia - 0
These are all the test kits I have at the moment.... my LFS said that they would do.

5 Hoplo's, 6 Melatonia Lacustrus, 8 Cardinals ............... thats whats left now.

I have performed 4 (30%) water changes since it happened and (touch wood) I have lost nothing else. I hope the worst is behind me now - I don't want to go through that again.

DAMN I have JUST remembered I fed them garden worms the day before it happened - could that have been a possibility why they died.

Thanks very much - if I have missed anything please tell me.

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 05 Apr 2004, 14:29

I'm not familiar with all types of worms, but if you meant that you got the worms straight from an outdoor garden, then I would say it probably was the cause. The toxins from the water/soil (fertilizers, polluted rain, etc.) probably got into the worms system, which when ingested by the fish, got them very ill or even killed them.

jurassic_pork · Post by **jurassic_pork** » 05 Apr 2004, 22:58

I would only blame feeding worms to the fish IF pesticides are used on the lawn or surrounding areas,I have fed worms many times to my fish without problem.Maybe its something to do with using a UGF in such a large tank,In my experience using a UGF the main problem was a buildup of waste that always collected underneath even when removing uneaten foods,regular gravel vacs and water changes.

Fish_Tank · Post by **Fish_Tank** » 06 Apr 2004, 02:42

did you say 0 nitrAtes?? there should be a reading for nitrate...I'm sure NO nitrates id dangerous and high nitrates is dangerous

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 06 Apr 2004, 12:49

Last year (Feburary) I used some slug pellets on the plants in the garden ......... I think it must have been them.

As for the Nitrates .... when I used my test kit the water did'nt change colour at all and when I looked at the comparison chart it said the reading was 0.

Thanks for the replies guys ........ I am putting the blame down to my own stupidness by feeding them the worms - which will never happen again.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 06 Apr 2004, 14:11

how many worms did you feed? if a few were left to molder under some bogwood, this could easily bump up ammonia for 24 hours, and reduce DO levels, dropping before you tested.

what about your heater? has it packed in? what's the temp?

try and get a second opinion on your nitrate reading, a two year old tank, even with regular water changes should have a residual reading.

i think residues from slug pellets are a very unlikely cause. i think they would have washed away after 14 months.

jurassic_pork mentions the ugf, if the gravel hasn't been siphoned regularly, the bed can go anaerobic releasing hydrogen sulfide and other nasties. this would explain why your plec died first.

good luck

Post by **Janne** » 06 Apr 2004, 22:07

There are two alternatives for No3 nitrate to be zero, first you have change all the water in the tank and directly after that doing the test or second your test is useless beacuse it doesnt works properly.
There are always in all cases some level of nitrate to be detected in a tank and even nitrite but in so small amount that the standard test not registrate a level of nitrite...if the water are good filtrated.
If this suddenly happend that your fish died without a reason...a big waterchange 60-75% should solv the problem...if the pH are high either you do small water changes several times in a couple of days or a big one as I wrote to avoid amonia.

Earthworms should be cleaning before feeding...keep them in a box with some grass for a few days so the stomach are empty before you use them.

Janne

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 07 Apr 2004, 08:55

I have two heaters in my tank at a constant temperature of 28'C. When I use the gravel cleaner (everytime I water change) I always ensure it goes down into the gravel as far as it can go - the only place in the tank I don't do this is in the planted area. I only fed 2 worms which were about 2" in length and I chopped them up and put them in at the "feeding end" and the fish loved them.

Looking back now I wish I could have got an external filter ....... but at the time I did'nt have the money. I am going to get some better test kits soon that will be more accurate that my current ones.

Thanks again everyone ............ touch wood no more losses to date

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 07 Apr 2004, 20:08

hope it's all getting back to normal.
is this the first time you've fed worms?
might be a tiny bit warm (the hotter the tank is, the less oxygen) but i doubt that would cause the problems on it's own.

on a lighter note, why not tell people that don't know, why folk from hartlepool are called monkey hangers. that story cracks me up every time i hear it!!! : )

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 08 Apr 2004, 10:16

Racoll ..................

Yes it was the first time I have fed them worms - and the last. I am going to put an airstone to give the tank a bit more oxygen. They are all still going strong ............

Does anyone else out there want to know why they call us Monkeyhangers ?

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 08 Apr 2004, 16:13

I'd like to know about Monkeyhangers!

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 13 Apr 2004, 09:09

Sorry it has took so long to reply - I turned 30 over the Easter weekend and we had a big party.

MONKEYHANGERS .............

Way back in the Napoleonic wars a ship crashed into rocks off the shores of Hartlepool. All manor of things were washed ashore including what the locals at the time thought was a French spy. Obviously the towns folk could'nt understand him and as they were at war with France they assumed he was a spy - so they hanged him from an archway that is still there today.
As you can guess he turned out not to be a spy but a MONKEY which came from the cargo ship ................ hence the name - MONKEYHANGER which we still get called to this very day.