L-numbers for my African Chichlid (malawi) tank, advice?

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 06 Mar 2004, 09:18

I have 5 Mbuna, a tropheus moorii, and a synodontis angelicus. PH-8.0, kh-18, 78F. I currently have an L191 Royal, L239 Blue Panaque, and a clown L104. I'm moving to a much larger tank soon (90 gal) and want to add one or two (max) more L's. Would love to hear suggestions on what might be ok with my water values and current tankmates. I've been looking at a queen arabesque, an L200 lemon spotted green, and a red cactus. Thanks...

Post by **Barbie** » 06 Mar 2004, 17:43

To be honest, the mix of fish you already have is far from ideal, IMO. Tropheus need to be kept in large groups of tropheus to spread the aggression. Without knowing your preference in types of mbuna, its going to be hard to advise you on how to purchase more. What do you already have? Do you intend to save fry from the tank? Either of those answers can drastically narrow down the choices available to you.

Barbie

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 07 Mar 2004, 01:39

im not looking to get any more Mbuna. (currently have a Ps Demasoni, redtop ndumbi, "Deep", Lab. Fuell) i'm looking to add one more cat to the mix of the above fish when i move into bigger tank. any of the one's i mentioned going to be okay in my water? and by the way, my Tropheus Moorii is the most mellow (and beautiful) of all the fish. There are no aggression probelms in the least. Albeit, they are all not adult size yet. The Labeotrop. and the redtop are closing in on max size but the rest are still maturing. My royal, blue panaque and clown seem to dig the mix as well. anyway..... just want one more. love'em so much.

TxFinFan · Post by **TxFinFan** » 07 Mar 2004, 20:22

patrick, I have a 105 gallon Mbuna tank with a Royal, Queen, Gold Nugget, Clown, and Zebra. They all do fine together and are never harassed by the Africans.

Looking for new plecs is fun!Good luck!

DeepFriedIctalurus · Post by **DeepFriedIctalurus** » 08 Mar 2004, 06:22

From my experience the L200 is very peaceful and doesn't compete well for food amongst other ple cos. My L205s and 177 regularly push the poor guy around and it's the biggest ple co in the tank. Even the slightly smaller chocolate Liposarcus ambrosetti can keep it away from a tablet or wafer.
All this could depend highly on the individual fish since the L239 seems to be a more difficult fish from what many say. But yours seems to be doing well in an mbuna tank w/ several other known aggressive cats so who can say for certain really...

In any case I'd consider finding the Tropheus a new home not just for what Barbie said but the fact that many live a shortened life from having too much protein in their diets. I can't see mbuna having a problem with a vegitarian diet but some of your cats wouldn't benefit from it much.

But for something different I'd suggest almost any of the Hypancistrus, they'll provide a nice contrast from the ple cos you already have.

Tyler

Post by **Barbie** » 08 Mar 2004, 06:32

Most Hypancistrus eat primarily meatie diets, while all of the mbuna and tropheus listed need to be fed almost exclusively vegetable matter to avoid problems with bloat, not just the tropheus. I really can't see a zebra thriving long term in an environment that is keeping mbuna healthy, personally. I've kept both, and would certainly not mix the two, just to avoid problems with bloat or the zebras or other hypancistrus from having sufficient protein.

If you really want to add more plecos to the existing tank, I'd try one of the more common types of ancistrus, personally. You can make it work with a few other types, but its not going to be ideal, IMO.

Barbie

DeepFriedIctalurus · Post by **DeepFriedIctalurus** » 08 Mar 2004, 08:08

I agree completely Barbie.. Ancistrus spp. really would be the best choice, all things considered. I only suggested them due to the wide variety of patterns & colors. Also since it's alot easier to make sure a Hypancistrus gets it's protien (like his Pseudacanthicus leopardus) than keep protein out of a Tropheus.. heh The mbuna a bit more tolerant of it but they still need over 1/2 of the diet to be vegitation.

But you're right that this really is a difficult mix to work out, many fish will survive this setup but not really thrive. Then you have the wood the Panaques need in the tank messing up the water the cich lids need...

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 10 Mar 2004, 18:20

I'm a little confused but that normal. My mbuna love the african root wood. i got it for them! I thought it leached tanins or something in the water that the fish love. Secondly, i hear you on the Tropheus issue but my friend has a similar set-up in which his tropheus has lived for years and years with no problems. I might not be a professional aquarium master, but i do think people WAY over exaggerate the conditions a fish need to "thrive". they are in a tank after all, how fun is that? Either they are wild and miss their normal water and food, or are tank raised and clueless as to their "natural" environment.
on the food side, i feed my mbuna and cats a diet of about 50% mysis, 50% spirulina flake/wafers. is this not enough protein for my royal etc? or too much for the cich lids?
I dont want a bushy ancistrus so will probably take no one's advice and go ahead and get the queen arabesque.
and if i told you how big my tank was, you would tell me that all my fish must be dead.

Post by **Barbie** » 10 Mar 2004, 21:13

Sorry the advice wasn't what you were hoping for. I'm sure if you ask around enough someone will tell you you're doing everything right. Good luck!

Barbie

patrickstockton · Post by **patrickstockton** » 15 Mar 2004, 17:38

sorry i touched a nerve (it seems). I decided on an L081 gold nugget with pale seams and very small yellow spots. A LFS of mine had a 3"er and gave him to me for $15...So i had to take him. Also I decided to further mix up the mix and remove a few fish and add a Tropheus Duboisi Maswa. He and my Moorii are instant buddies! Who'd-a-thunk-it?

And not being pejorative in any way, i want to say i do hear "i'm doing everything right" from many people. As well as hearing the contrary. EVERY lfs, aquarium "expert", and users of this site (moderators included) state conflicting opinions constantly. I simply like to take in all the information and try to come up with a consensus or common theme. I've heard from different reputable sources that you can only keep Moorii with others in a big group (15+), some say you can keep one or two with other Lake T fish, some say you can mix with certain Mbuna, some say you cant. Some say you cant keep a Royal P L E C O in a 30 gal, some people in Brazil have 4 in a ten gallon! Some say to feed them cucumbers and lettuce, others say they need meat! What to do with all of this????
well.... given 2 assumptions, 1) we keep fish in aquariums for our pleasure, not theirs. (im sure they'd rather live in some kind of "wild" nature. and 2) 95% of the time these fish are raised in captivity that is less than "ideal" or contrary to their "natural" environment. I conclude the following action that Barbie would probably not endorse.... Try everything to see what works best. Put old rules, wives' tales, and normal convention to the test. If you can successfully introduce a Zebra to your Mbuna tank more power to you! If you want to put a synodontis angelicus into a 20 gallon tank until it gets too big, GO for it!
rules are meant to be broken... That doesn't mean i dont want advice from the experts, i certainly do. perhaps i need to revise my questions to prevent offense. I should have simply asked what L#'s do well in african chichlid water, rather than asking what would "do well" in my tank with x properties. This would govern whether the answer comes from personal opinion (which is invaluable) or empirical evidence (the foundation). Depending on the question, either approach might be appropriate. I am learning. thanks for all of thoughts.....

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 15 Mar 2004, 17:50

sorry i touched a nerve (it seems).

In a very anoying way YES.

Try everything to see what works best

Try it on yourself and dont worsen the situtaion the fishes are in.

That doesn't mean i dont want advice from the experts, i certainly do.

This is a joke?

I should have simply asked what L#'s do well in african chichlid water

It wouldve made the answer simple - NONE

ronsterrc · Post by **ronsterrc** » 15 Mar 2004, 17:54

OMG ....we should report you to the trophous police for being cruel. If you want to waste money when they die then feel free to do so, i know my wallet cannot stretch that far. You might just end up with a tank that has just catfish in it, then you can become an expert in catfish

You have to bear in mind that the people in here have been raising all kinds of aquactic live stuff for many many years. Pay attention and you might learn something, like i have. They aren't all experts, far from it, just a few fanatical hobbyists with nothing else better to do

OH and please DO NOT confuse exagerration with experiance.

Ron

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Mar 2004, 18:24

OK, this thread has obviously outlived its usefullness. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, just as everyone has the right to choose whether to help or ignore posts by people insistent on asking for advice just to ignore or argue with it. It's what makes the world go around. Please keep that in mind everyone.

Barbie

To clarify here, this post was locked due to the basic name calling and lack of intelligent discussion it had sunk to. Not due to disagreement about methods. Sorry if that was unclear from my post.

L-numbers for my African Chichlid (malawi) tank, advice?

L-numbers for my African Chichlid (malawi) tank, advice?

thanks for all the info