Synodontis Compatability

[robotron]

I have a 55 w/ 6 (soon to be Synodontis Nigriventis,7 Eutropiellus Buffei,a single 4" Synodontis Acanthomias,and a few dwarf jewelfish.The tank is furnished with two piles of lava rock that reach the surface at each end and is planted with various Anubias species.I realize that S. Acanthomias will get large and have also read that S.Acanthomias could be considered among the more territorial of the synodontids along with S.Notatus.The Lava rock is placed so there are many hiding spots.I am hoping that the Nigriventis can go into the rockwork to hide as the S.Acanthomias gets too large to pursue them.They seem fine now together now,but....
Questions:
1.Will the Synodontis Acanthomias chase to death/outright kill the S.Nigriventis?
2.If not,could I add other Synodontis?I would love to add a single riverine Synodontis.(S.Schoutedeni,S.Pleurops?)
3.If another Synodontis is possible,which species are especially recomended?Locally lace cats?,S.Flavitaeniatus,S.Angelicus,S.Vellifer, a 6"S.Brichardi,S.Decorus,and S.Ocellifer are currently available to me.I've seen S.Nummifer and S.Soloni in past months also.
4.Is this largely trial and error?I have spare tanks to move fish around if needed.
5.Would adding a group of cheapo lace cats be easier than a single fish?
6.Are there any special "tricks" to keeping Synodontis together?For example feeding near an agressive specimen's chosen hole?Keeping temps low?
7.If adding other Synodontis,should I do it as soon as possible while the fish are young,small,and not accustomed to sharing?
Thanks.

[Dinyar]

Robotron,

Welcome to the Planet Catfish Forum!

Every time (three so far) I've bought "Synodontis nigriventris", it's turned out to be another fish as it's grown older! I recently bought seven "nigriventris" that mutated into S. eupterus.

But even if you have "real" S. nigriventris, I doubt if you will have any problems keeping the S. acanthoimias with them. Yes, you could even add another Syno or two. Of your list:

* Locally lace cats? - kinda dull, avoid if you an afford to

* S.Flavitaeniatus - nice fish, stays small, rather shy if not kept with other flavs

* S.Angelicus - nice but VERY territorial, may declare war on the S. acanthomias as it grows bigger

* S.Vellifer - interesting. S. eupterus looks similar and is much more common

* a 6"S.Brichardi - one of my favorites, nice balance between not bullying other fish and not getting pushed around by other bullies

* S.Decorus - great fish, but will get way too big for your tank. Grows quickly to boot

*S.Ocellifer - better than S. nigrita but not much

* S.Nummifer - have no personal experience, but seems like a nice fish

* S.Soloni - nice, another one of my favorites, but don't know how it would do with your S. acanthomias. Doesn't get very big.

This is just my personal opinion. YMMV, etc. But hope it's useful.

BTW, Robotron, in these forums we strongly encourage people to list their location in their Profile. This is just so that we can help you better. If you want to sign with your real given name, that would be great.

Dinyar

[robotron]

Thanks Dinyar,I am pretty certain that they are true Synodontis Nigriventis.I bought some locally and had some shipped from Texas.The place in Texas has modified their list and now calls them Synodontis Nigriventis Nigeria but I got them before they started calling them "Nigeria".I read Lee Finley's very first catfish corner column in TFH and he gave a few tips for id'ing Nigriventis.In this column he says that many of the similar cats sold as Nigriventis have a distinctly spotted pattern.True S.Nigriventis have 3 or 4 vertical bands.There are rows of small white spots on the body.The abdomen may often show a spotted pattern.I understand that id'ing fish can be tough though so who knows,I could have another similar species.I had a Eupterus that I got from a customer who wanted me to destroy it when I worked in a store and it had the feathered dorsal at a small size(about 3").Some of my S.Nigriventis are close to that size.
I was perusing my David Sands book tonight and those Synodontis Brichardi sure look nice.I am aware that being a fish from flowing waters,they require clean water,but that shouldn't be a problem.Combined with your comments that describe their nature,they seem to be a good choice.The one I saw looked in good condition.The Flavitaeniatus was gone when I revisited the place I originally spotted it tonight(38th in Manhattan).I am going to check on that Vellifer tommorow maybe.I should be doing something soon(tax refund time)and I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Silurus]

Hey robotron,

Join the gang! Dinyar and I are looking for enough people interested in <i>Chiloglanis</i> to get an importer in Louisiana to bring in some (he even said he'll try getting <i>Euchilichthys</i>, and we're keeping our fingers sooo very crossed). We'll add you to the list.

[Dinyar]

Robotron,

I buy lots of my fish at New World Aquarium on 38th St. bet. 2-3 Aves as well. In fact we just picked up a nice Trachelyopterus ("trickley octopus" is my mnemonic) wood cat and a school of harlequin rasboras there today (cat ID courtesy of HH). The trickley octopus was all of $10, and it's quite stunning. Just shows that there are all kinds of steals to be had once you leave the beaten path of Corys & Loris!

See, I told you you should list your location!

Dinyar

[robotron]

Don't even say that Dinyar.My T.Exilis is no more as of yesterday.I introduced a Microgeophagus Altispinosa (damn c*&%$#d) that developed a cloudy eye.Within 3 days the T.Exilis that I have had for a while got the cloudiness in one eye also.When I was at New World tonight I didn't see any left.I probably shouldn't be thinking about new fish for my Amazon tank now anyway.Ug.
I did see a few Synodontis Notatus though...Hmmm..$11.99 not bad for a Synodontis.At that price,I could afford 3.The store in Jersey City N.J. I'm going to hit tmrw has what they label a Synodontis Vellifer,when I checked the Cat-a-log they don't list S.Vellifer.Perhaps it is known under another name.
Keep me updated if you see any uncommon Synos in local stores.I'm in Jersey but I would like to hit some stores in the City too.I heard that Fishtown in Flushing and Pacific on Delancey are also good.

[Sid Guppy]

Hey, syno's....
I can't leave this go unattended, can I?

Ive had nigriventris for many years; the same 5; mind. They now reside in my best friends' tank. The oldest 4 are now past 18 years, so youl'll be keeping them for a while
I've kept Flavitaeniatus (a pair). These are very peaceful; but also VERY shy and truly nocturnal. I've seen them less than some Auchenipterids I've had!
Combining different syno-species can lead to trouble or joy, it depends on species; I'm writing a paper on this very issue; part of a series of papers for the cichlid-club herein the Netherlands (It's a 4-part series about keeping catfish in a cichlid setup)

A few scenario's that work AFAIK:
-Multiple-Target-plan: one big territorial syno and a shoal of small ones. (you've got this already)
-Avoid-Each-Other-Plan: one species of upsidedowners with a bottom dwelling species; both groups.
-Daring Plan: one species of territorials; single fish or a group of 4 or more; you need a big tank, to pull this off.
-The Great Mix Plan: group of small ones, a smaller group (3-5) of middle-sized peaceful ones and a single boss; this ONLY works if all three differ a LOT; this too needs a big tank or at least loads of hiding places.

A few scenarios thatoften lead to disaster AFAIK:
-Ping Pong Plan: two syno's, never mind species.
-Sissy & Bully Plan: a small group of big peaceful ones with a bossy one, in a too small tank (I've seen this case: single Angelicus and three decorus; DON'T do it; this was a 400 liter tank, with ample wood...)
-Too Fragile Plan: some species simply shouldn't be kept with too bossy syno's. To name a few:
"Too Bossy Syno's":
-S angelicus
-S schall
-S obesus
-S nigromaculatus
"Too Fragile Syno's":
-S contractus
-S decorus
-S alberti (it has character, but those big eyes and long whiskers are too easily damaged)
-S pleurops (biggest sissy of them all, needs nice tankmates)

Mind, it's from what I know personally, so there may be more or different experience out there

[Chrysichthys]

I doubt that the acanthomias will bother the nigriventris. There is a certain amount of trial-and-error involved, but as a rule a large Synodontis won't pester a group of a small species. Another syno close to its own size can be a different story, especially if it's a similar looking species. E.g., war would likely break out if you put in a longirostris. A decorus or notatus--hard to say. Brichardi ought to be fine; looks nothing like an acanthomias. You can keep several if you want because they're utterly peaceful.
Angelicus is one to avoid. They're very territorial; one might well harass your nigriventris; not to mention, pick a fight with the acanthomias, even if it's three times bigger, and get the crap beaten out of it.
I like S. alberti. They're as peaceful as brichardi, but quite nocturnal.
In the U.K. we have the same problem with so-called upside-down cats turning out to be something else as they grow; usually S. eupterus. If juveniles have a black and white-to-gray network pattern, this will break up into spots and fade, and voila, S. eupterus. Proper nigriventris are irregularly barred tan and brown.
There's a variant of nigriventris you can get here, called 'zebra kutu' which has a very bold chocolate and cream pattern that doesn't fade as they grow. They're twice as expensive as the garden variety one, but well worth it.


BTW SG I have a tank which has a clear pecking order: Decorus, notatus, Brachysynodontis batensoda, occelifer, robbianus. Everybody feeds and nobody gets hurt, even the robbianus. This is the Pecking Order Plan, although I didn't actually plan it. I think the notatus would have been the dominant fish, except he was initially smaller than the decorus, and evidently still thinks he is. I don't intend to ever add another syno to this tank. I did once try an angelicus--big mistake.
There's also the Just To Be On The Safe Side Plan which I use with my longirostris--don't let another syno get within a million miles of it.
Bryan.

[Sid Guppy]

Angelicus are safe with small ones, but there should be already a size difference when introduced:
I've kept a huge angelicus (8") with a shoal of S petricola dwarfs (in the Tangtank). It worked without any problems.
When moved to my cousins' tank (who has the same cats with a big Giraffenose cat as well: Auchenoglanis occidentalis) it worked again without any trouble.

but petricola's might be a bit more resilient than nigriventris, being Tang-syno's and customed to cichlids....

[gibbo]

I have a 1.5" Angelicus who already thinks it owns the tank (and it's in with a 4.5" Paratilapia Pollini 'Big Spot' C*****d female, two 3" Hemisynodontis Membranaceus and Two 7" Peacock Spiny Eels)! Gr8 fish though, real character!

[robotron]

I figured I would post again and let you guys know that I decided to just add just 3 more Synodontis Nigriventis for now.That brings my group up to nine individuals.I really like the Acanthomias.It's getting big(shrimp pellets)and I just don't wanna increase the risk of mayhem in this tank.I came close to getting a trio of S.Notatus I saw,but relented.I read the info on S.Acanthomias at Scotcat and the Baensch atlas and had nightmares of my Acanthomias taking chunks out of any other possible Synodontis species added.It seems to get along well(for now)w/ my Nigriventis even with chironomid larvae introduced at night.I'm not that skilled an aquarium keeper to be taking chances now.I do like Synodontis enough that I would consider another species in a seperate tank in the future though(a group of Brichardi-yummy).I'm sure the info given regarding different species might come in handy then.Thanks again.