Undergravel Filters andPuntius Denisonii (Red Lined Torpedo)

paul_southend2k · Post by **paul_southend2k** » 10 Feb 2004, 22:02

Hi everyone....

I currently have a Juwel Rekord 120 aquarium with the usual filter media however instead of a carbon sponge I have used Rowa phos....

I also have an under gravel filter powered by a 'Flow-Jet 1' power head.

I have set the tank up as seen in the picture below

However, due to me using a small size gravel (special plant gravel) I always seem to have bits of dirt suspended in the water. I clean the gravel weekly but after a few days the dirt gets kicked up by the fish again......

Is a under gravel filter really necessary? or would it benefit if I changed the under gravel filter for a Fluval 3Plus Internal Filter to run along side the standard filter???

Any comments would be appreciated....

Paul

spikythefish · Post by **spikythefish** » 11 Feb 2004, 00:46

you dont need an ugf, with live plants its best not to use one, the roots get intertwined in the grid, it resricts root growth and what ever plant food you use dont stay in the gravel it gets puled through the ugf and into the water

i never heard of the brand of filter your using ,but what size tank, how many and what kinds of fish do you have in it, if you tell me that then i could tell you more

Post by **Dinyar** » 11 Feb 2004, 01:31

Spiky's right, you don't need a UGF and you'd be better off without one.

Slightly opaque water usually has a biological rather than physical origin. How long has this tank been set up? Any way, more filtration can't hurt, especially if you are going to remove your existing UGF.

Like Spiky, I am not familiar with the Juwel Rekord filter. Wouldn't recommend an internal filter, though. In my experience, canister filters are the most hassle-free and provide the best overall filtration.

Dinyar

metallhd · Post by **metallhd** » 11 Feb 2004, 05:22

I'll third that, plants and undergravel don't mix, I imagine the problem would be exacerbated by the small gravel also. If I'm judging the picture size right, I would think 120 is litres, and the main filter is some sort of built-in thing?

I don't have much experience with canister filters, but have found Aquaclear hang-on filters and Fluval internals work well. I have 2 Fluvals running, including a 3-series in my 125 l tank. I have an Aquaclear 1-series on that tank as well. I use the internal filter as the workhorse, and depend on the hang-on to 'polish' the water. That little filter has run more or less continuously for 20 years, quite the testament to its' quality - no parts ever replaced.

Good to see your handle btw - my Grandad (now passed) used to live just across the road from the Cliffs Pavilion, which once held a legion pub.

paul_southend2k · Post by **paul_southend2k** » 11 Feb 2004, 18:18

Hi, Thank you all for you comments....

Spikythefish - I currently have 2 Male Kribs (Pelvicachromise Pulcher) 1 Glow Light Tetra (Hemigrammus Erythrozonus) 2 Siamese Algea Eaters (Crossocheilos Siamensis) 2 Clown Pleco's (Panaque Maccus) 1 Stripped Rubbernose Pleco (Chartostoma Cf. Thomsoni) 2 Clown Loaches (Botia Macracanthus) 8 Green Fire Tetra (Aphyocharax Rathbuni) 2 Red Lined Torpedo's (Puntius Denisonii) 2 Pair of Cherry Barbs (Puntius Titteya) 1 Pair of Albino Cherry Barbs.

The tank is 120 litres, further tank details can be found at:
http://www.juwel-aquarium.com/uk/index.html
and the filter can be found at:
http://www.aquacare.co.uk/maint3.htm
there are pictures of my tank at

http://groups.msn.com/SouthendTalkofthe ... oebox.msnw

Dinyar - The tank has been set up since January and has matured nicely, there are no problems in that area... the problem seems to be the fact that the fish stir up any dirt on the bottom of the tank floor... I am wondering how it is best to get rid of all this????

Metallhd - I like the idea of running two internal filters as the cost of another Fluval Plus 3 is cheaper (Â£25) then a external canister filter (i was looking at the Whiem Ecco 2231 however this has a slow turn over of water and is Â£45 here!

As for the cliffs pavillion- its still there, sorry to hear about your grandad... the pub is there too however no longer a legion pub

Has anyone any idea on what is the best second filter i could use????

Any ideas of what additional fish I could add??? - I have a smaller 60cm long tank with a large clown loach (Botia Macracanthus) about 5 inches long which I am going to move into this tank and move the Stripped Rubbernose Pleco (Chartostoma Cf. Thomsoni) into the smaller one in a rocky enviroment... would this tank be large enough for the Rubbernose???

If you would like to chat to me direct feel free to email me at paul_southend2k@hotmail.com

Post by **Dinyar** » 11 Feb 2004, 19:09

If your tank's been set up since January, then it's a brand new tank and I'd be willing to bet that your cloudy water is the result of a mild bacterial or algal bloom and not dispersed particulates from your substrate. It takes at least six months for any tank to fully mature, and crystal clear water usually requires a mature tank. Again, IMO, this points to the need for better biological filtration in your tank.

Internal filters function much like power heads with coarse sponges on the intake, ie, they move the water and provide a little mechanical filtration, but don't provide biological or chemical filtration to speak of. Plus they clog quickly in many tanks. With filters, you should be looking at "cost of ownership", not purchase cost. IMO, Eheims can often be the lowest cost filtration option from the former point of view.

You have lots of nice fish, but if I were in your shoes, I'd find a way of passing the "Chinese algae eaters" on to a friend or LFS. They are nasty fish, which you will eventually have cause to regret.

Dinyar

paul_southend2k · Post by **paul_southend2k** » 11 Feb 2004, 19:40

You said Chinese algae eaters however I have Siamese Algea Eaters (Crossocheilos Siamensis) these are different right??? they look different.....

Post by **Dinyar** » 11 Feb 2004, 19:45

Yes. My fault, sorry. --Dinyar

paul_southend2k · Post by **paul_southend2k** » 11 Feb 2004, 19:53

Its ok mate...

have u any ideas what is a good second filter i could use????

and any ideas of what additional fish I could add??? like blue rams??? I want some more Puntius Denisonii (Red Lined Torpedo) but cant find any at the moment!!! lol

Would it be ok to move the large clown loach (Botia Macracanthus) about 5 inches long into my large tank and the Stripped Rubbernose pl*co (Chartostoma Cf. Thomsoni) into my 60cm one??? The idea is to set up a rocky envoiroment as i understand this is ideal for them?? would this tank be large enough for the Rubbernose??? Any ideas on how to reduce the stress of moving the clown loach??

wng95 · Post by **wng95** » 11 Feb 2004, 20:00

Hi Paul
You should try Trimar at http://www.tropicalfish.org.uk for your Torpedoes, I'm sure I seen them there the last time I looked.
Cheers....William....

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 11 Feb 2004, 22:37

Yeah I also second that this is a maturation ploblem rather than the result of your Filter. You may also be over feeding if that much wast has built up in a month and you are cleaning every week. Do you have a test kit, what are the water perameters like.

Which filter is best is going to depend on how much you want to spend. eheim aquaball, fluval plus are both ok as we are only talking backup filtration. Externals are by far better buys though. Ecco would also be my choice for your size tank.

Puntius Denisonii (Red Lined Torpedo) also grow to about 10" so i hope you are planing a bigger tank in the future?

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 12 Feb 2004, 12:27

magnum4 wrote:Puntius Denisonii (Red Lined Torpedo) also grow to about 10" so i hope you are planing a bigger tank in the future?

Magnum, have you actually seen a Red Line at this size? Even after a couple of years the largest I've known them grow to is about 5". This applies to either species sold under this name, and I'd be very interested to see a larger one.

paul_southend2k · Post by **paul_southend2k** » 12 Feb 2004, 18:00

I agree i was told that there maximum size was 5inches however 4 is more likely and that they will be fine in my tank......

Would Rams go well in my tank???

Also.... would it be ok to take the tube out of the undergravel filter and leave the base in??

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 12 Feb 2004, 19:27

I ordered some off BAS that were about 8" TL so yes they get to atleast that size, plus at glee this year there were some at least 10" easy.

I think BAS still have some left in there large display tank Pete.

paul_southend2k · Post by **paul_southend2k** » 12 Feb 2004, 19:35

What BAS?

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 12 Feb 2004, 23:14

magnum4 wrote:I ordered some off BAS that were about 8" TL so yes they get to atleast that size, plus at glee this year there were some at least 10" easy.

Whereabouts at GLEE? I only saw the little 'uns on Hardy's and I think J&K maybe had some.

magnum4 wrote:I think BAS still have some left in there large display tank Pete.

Yes, they're still there, including one of the 'other' species but the biggest is only about 5" SL

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:10

I think it was a Rena or Juwel display tank they were in But to be honest i can't remember, I wasn't too impressed with GLEE this year, so didn't spend much time there.

@Paul BAS stands for british aquatic superstore a shop in bolton.

This applies to either species sold under this name, and I'd be very interested to see a larger one.

I think (no decision made) that one will become a sub species rather than seperate species.

ronsterrc · Post by **ronsterrc** » 13 Feb 2004, 17:22

Hey, have you looked into getting a Eheim External filter. They are expensive but judging by the price of tank you have i dont think you will find these too expensive. Check them out, i got mine at http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/acatal ... rs_70.html i've got the 2026 and its hassle free

due to the self priming thingie!

Jewul internal filter isn't that great...so i've been told and the UGF isn't much cop. Thats why i only bought the jewel tank and cabinet.

Ronnie

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 14 Feb 2004, 15:56

magnum4 wrote:I think (no decision made) that one will become a sub species rather than seperate species.

I've asked Andy over at BAS, some of the first ones that came in were very large fish at around 7"SL, they were of the less attractive form with the black dorsal spot and underslung mouth.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that we are looking at different subgenera, never mind species. The fin position is different, there are noticeable visual differences with the squamation, and there is significant contrast in the head shape between the two forms.
To use a birding term the 'jizz' of the two forms bears no resemblance.

clothahump · Post by **clothahump** » 14 Feb 2004, 19:51

http://www.corydorasworld.com/encyclopedia/puntius.html

The information I got from one of the collectors indicates that there is only one species, perhaps there is a seperate species that looks similar???

Undergravel Filters andPuntius Denisonii (Red Lined Torpedo)

Undergravel Filters andPuntius Denisonii (Red Lined Torpedo)

Further info