Sexing L476 and L397?

[Fallen_Leaves16]

Got 3 L476 from Sabu at Saburai Aquatics, and two 397s as well. Would like confirmation on sex; Sabu tried to sex a 1m2f trio for me, based on body/head shape and odontodes, but upon receival I thought the L476s were all males. I pulled the three for better pics during a large water change yesterday, and now I'm not so sure; the smallest fish does seem to have an awfully long, square head compared to the other two. There is a ~7cm size difference between the smallest and the largest; the in-between sized fish is ~4cm smaller than the large 476.
As for the 397, they are rather young still, but based on the genital papillae both do look male-ish... though defining sexual characteristics other than the papillae don't seem to be distinct enough yet.
L476s:
Largest L476; ~20cm

[Fallen_Leaves16]

Mid-sized L476; ~16cm:

[Fallen_Leaves16]

Two more pics of the 16cm L476:

Smallest L476; ~13cm:

[Fallen_Leaves16]

More pics of the little guy:

[Fallen_Leaves16]

1st L397:

[bekateen]

The only L397 shown looks female to me, but if it's immaturethen could be male.

My inclinations on the Hemiancistrus are all female based on pectoral odontodes alone. Which L476 is supposed to be the male? The small one? I do see the head shadow differences... again, maybe the smaller individuals are immature.

Cheers, Eric

[Fallen_Leaves16]

2nd L397:

[Fallen_Leaves16]

The only L397 shown looks female to me. My inclinations on the Hemiancistrus are all female based on pectoral odontodes alone. But maybe the smaller individuals are immature.

Which L476 is supposed to be the male?

Cheers, Eric

Thanks!
The smallest L476 seems to have a more 'box-like' head shape, at least from what I can tell; pretty sure that one was also the alleged male.
The pectoral odontodes seem to be growing in a little on the smallest and largest specimens, but at a very slow rate; might be my imagination, but the largest L476's cheek odontodes may also be growing some more as well.

Forgot to mention that the L397s are both around 9cm, just about borderline sexually-mature, I think, if that changes anything.

[bekateen]

The dorsal view of your L397 does appear to have small odontodes, so it might be male. 9cm is plenty large to show sexual traits.

Cheers, Eric

[Koi-fantast]

L397 looks like a pair. 1st m, 2nd f. F need to faten upp..