Baby L260!

Post by **Barbie** » 03 Feb 2004, 06:01

Some of you have been following my adventures in trying to spawn these guys. I "accidentally" found eggs yesterday when checking for one of my females, since my male has been quite adamant about not letting anyone in his cave, but not really noticably fanning. Imagine my surprise when tonight I found this little guy bumped out in the main tank! I guess I don't have to worry about whether or not this batch of eggs is fertile! Makes me wish I'd "accidentally" looked a bit closer yesterday when I discovered them, hehe

I'm going to try to document his developmental progress. It's hard to guess just when the eggs were laid, but I don't think they could have been in there more than 7 days or so, but I can't be sure, since I was forbidden to look in his house with my flashlight!

I had to share, I'm so excited!

Barbie

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 03 Feb 2004, 06:28

Congrats Barbie. Lets hope there are lots more siblings in with the father.

Phil.

azn_phil · Post by **azn_phil** » 03 Feb 2004, 13:53

WOW! Congratulations!

StiffMeister · Post by **StiffMeister** » 03 Feb 2004, 14:36

very cool! congrats!

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 03 Feb 2004, 17:01

Hi Barbie,
congratulations, cool photos

Picklefish · Post by **Picklefish** » 03 Feb 2004, 17:38

Congratulations....What are your water parameters ?? Any chance of a pic of the breeding tank ?? Please...

p_murthi · Post by **p_murthi** » 03 Feb 2004, 17:53

wonderful photographs and have a cigar

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 03 Feb 2004, 18:00

Great news, congratulations!

How big is your tank? Is it a species tank? How many fish do you have? Tankmates (if any)? Do you know how many babies there are or is he the only one?
I am about to buy a pair of these with the intention of spawning to go with my pair of King Tigers (L066). Is a 30"x15"x12" tank big enough for these 4 fish IYO? It is heavily furnished with rocks, caves and bogwood. Filtration is one fluval 1, one fluval 3. Theres a better description in one of my other posts.

Cheers and well done

Post by **Barbie** » 03 Feb 2004, 18:22

OK, I intend to try to make an article from all the info about spawning these guys, but I'll try to get all the information in here as I go?

The fish are nearly adult size, I've owned them 2 years. I put my largest dominant male and 2 plump females in a 10 gallon tank a month ago, because I was completely out of tank space, and figured I'd just do daily water changes if need be to keep their water parameters up. I would DEFINITELY recommend a larger tank, it just happened to be what I had available to use. They will be moving into a larger tank once we get this first spawn out of the way, I'm sure.

My tap parameters are 7.8 pH, 7 degrees kH, 9 degrees gH. I keep the tank 84 degrees. I've been following Larry Vires methods for spawning. The cave is twice the males width, and a bit taller than he is, and about 1 2/3s his length. It's not exact, but as close as I could make it with the tile I already had cut. Evidently my male isn't picky! I'll take some pictures of it later today when I take more of the fry.

I did 30-40% water changes, every day for a week with snow melt water that was 60 degrees or so, to simulate the rainy season. Then I let them alone for a week, with only minimal tank maintenance or siphoning, if I must (in the 10 gallon, a couple times I MUST), but I top back up with tap water, of the same temp as the tank.

They spawned once 10 days or so ago, but the eggs weren't fertile and disappeared 2 days later. I don't want to bug the male, and have been coached not to look in there with the flashlight to "check" on things, so I'm not exactly sure how long these eggs have been in there. The guess is 7 days or so, which would be from the time the second female went into the cave, just after he lost the first spawn. He's been violently keeping females out, but wasn't actively fanning, so I didn't realize there was anything in there with him. He's very quiet about his egg care, compared to my ancistrus, it seems.

The odds are good, that the tank water parameters at the time of spawning were very nearly the same as my tap water. Yesterday was to be the 7th day of snow melt water changes, so basically the eggs were in the there the whole time while I was trying to get them to spawn this time around. I wouldn't recommend that in the future, btw ;) Now that the male has the idea about what goes on, I'm sure I'll just bug him with the flashlight when I need to check.

I put the single egg in a specimen container hanging inside the parent tank, with a hole driled in the side and a piece of sponge in it, then ran a small piece of tubing into the powerhead for the tank and allow it to run into the box, for constant fresh water flow. He'll need more flow as he gets bigger, but for now, this is as much as he could handle without being bumped around. Hopefully it will be effective. This is all going to be trial and error, I think.

I was just so excited

I would definitely recommend a male and two or three females in a tank that size. It should work fine.

Barbie

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 03 Feb 2004, 18:54

Do you think that a pair of king tigers (L066) and ither a pair or trio (which one) of L260 would work in a 18 gal.

Other tankmates would be 1 otocinclus and 5 endlers livebearers.
Cheers

hazard · Post by **hazard** » 04 Feb 2004, 00:21

Barbie

Congrats on the spawn. So much for not using a 10g for breeding plecos. I know 4 pairs of bristlenose were to much though.

Chris

Post by **Barbie** » 05 Feb 2004, 08:33

OK, its been two days, and dad managed to punt another baby out of the nest, so he's in keeping his brother company now. Here's what they look like this evening.

The spawning tank looks like this.

Dad is still ferociously protecting the ones left in the cave. Bob's guesstimate was that there were 7 left in there. Hopefully he's right. One female is still trying adamantly to force her way back in with him, but he's having none of that!

Barbie

FiSHYBiZNESS · Post by **FiSHYBiZNESS** » 05 Feb 2004, 15:18

Brilliant work Barbie! I am one who have been following your spawn stories. I love your 'snow-melt' suggestion to simulate the rainy season. I live in florida so i do not have such things at my disposal, but i had never thought of it. What are the chem params for your snow melt? does such a drastic change in temp adversly affect the plecos in the begining? ie 10 gal tank @ 84 deg F w/ 30 to 40% water change with 60 deg F water? or does this mini-shock spur them into spawning?

Post by **Barbie** » 06 Feb 2004, 09:51

OK, today was the 4th day since I found the first fry, and I got a few new pictures. They're starting to show pigment now, like little black spots on their backs. Their mouths have developed quite a bit more and they can effectively hang on to the sides it seems. They're also more active.

There's also a picture of dad Here that's pretty large, so dialup beware. You can see a few of the fry under his nose, but I still have no guesstimate on how many are in there that I'd trust. Still guessing 5-7.

They sure have been enjoyable, and seem to be healthy so far. I just followed Larry's directions that he gave in his chat discussion about spawning plecos, basically. The cooler water helps to stimulate them. Jools has the chat logs and will be posting the discussion in Shane's World soon!

Barbie

bigward · Post by **bigward** » 06 Feb 2004, 11:05

Great stuff Barbie

keep it coming ...................

Fish Soup · Post by **Fish Soup** » 07 Feb 2004, 02:53

What's the feeding plan when those monstrous yolks are gone?

Don

Post by **Barbie** » 07 Feb 2004, 03:22

The plan for now is spirulina wafer bits, BBS, cyclopeeze, and anything else I can get them to eat without fouling the water! ;)

Barbie

Picklefish · Post by **Picklefish** » 07 Feb 2004, 03:56

I picked up two more QA today and now it appears I have 3 ladies and a gent. The two I got today are a good inch or so larger than the two I already had. They are in a 48" x12x12" tank that is 33 gallons. Should I worry about excessive aggresion ? I have 10-12 caves made from PVC tubes, flower pots siliconed together and a few pieces of driftwood. My fingers are crossed at this time.

Post by **Barbie** » 07 Feb 2004, 07:19

The females will have to figure out who is dominant, but it shouldn't be a problem. Is the male one of the larger ones? You'll definitely want to make a spawning cave for them like I described out of tile. Just any old pipe and pot and what not won't do for them. I've kept them that way more than a year with no results. Your tank is plenty big, IMO. Good luck!

Barbie

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 07 Feb 2004, 18:33

Heya again,

I've been cave-building today out of tile and am going to make another out of slate later. Just a few q's:
1. I made one out of tile that is 10" long, 4"wide and 3" high. Is this a good size? It is probably going to be for my L066 but I am about to purchase a pair of queen arabesque so it might be used for them also.
2. What size is the one that your male has just used?
3. Can I use slate?
Cheers

Post by **Barbie** » 07 Feb 2004, 21:19

The cave needs to be just the height of the male, so I'd say yours will way too tall and too long. Mine has an inside opening size of 1.25" tall, 2.5" wide, and 6" long. You want the male to be able to easily block the entire opening.

Here's last nights updated baby pics. They're getting quite a bit more pigment already!

I can still see the others in happily wiggling around. The development of the two fry I have is slightly different, so I'd assume the one that stayed in with dad developed a bit faster, but I'm not sure it will hurt anything in the long run.

Barbie

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 07 Feb 2004, 22:22

The cave is primarily for my King Tiger's which grow a little larger than queen arabesque I have been told. The inside cave dimensions at the front are 3.5" wide by 2" high. The cave tapers towards the back, inside it's 9" long almost 4" wide and 3" high. I have built the roof in two sections, one large bit 7.5" thats stuck on to the front part and a removable back part that is 1.5". This will only be used if necessary.

Do you think this will be ok for King Tigers ? I will make a smaller one for the L260 when I get them.

Cheers

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 07 Feb 2004, 22:55

One other thing,

I've emailed frybabies twice now once on the 31st of jan. and once on 6th feb. with no reply. I wanted to know whether they are able to ship to the UK, I live literally 10 mins from gatwick airport, so would be able to pick them up as soon as they came in. I would be interested in about 10 catfish of theirs. Just wondering if you know what their shipping rules/regulations are and if it is possible, what it would cost?
Cheers,

Post by **Barbie** » 07 Feb 2004, 23:43

As far as I know, they can't ship to the UK without special permits. I wouldn't panic about it taking a week for her to get some kind of an answer to that question. She basically has to contact her "agent" at customs and wait for a reply. With the US, the proper "channels" in situations like that can take weeks before they get back to you. I do think that shipping to the UK is probably not going to be a possibility though, as I have never heard of anyone that does it, and there's probably a very good reason for that. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. She will get back to you. I'm sure. She always does

Barbie

polkadot · Post by **polkadot** » 08 Feb 2004, 00:31

Lovely fries there! *claps*

Picklefish · Post by **Picklefish** » 08 Feb 2004, 01:15

Ok...I am not trying to hijack your thread but now I gots more questions. Checked the fish when I got home from work. It may be that the two new larger ones are both males. One was at one end of the tank with both of the females, hiding in a pile of brickwork and pipe. One female was in a pipe. I will do up some tile caves when I am off next and have time, 12 hour shifts you know. The other new one was at the opposite end of the tank sitting under the sponge filter but didnt look interested in the other fish. If both of the big'uns are males will that tank be big enough or do I need to pull one of them out ? I am hoping to get another 2 or 3 next week to make sure I have a pair at least. But I am confident I have one now but insurance is a good thing and I can always set up another tank.

Julie · Post by **Julie** » 08 Feb 2004, 01:17

Hippyguy

Hey there. I did reply last night to your second inquiry. I guess you didn't get your email before you posted here. I do apologize for missing the first one, but it happens sometimes. I've had a number of inquiries about exporting, I guess I missed out on that one.
Just to let you know, the legal rules seems to be fairly similar in the uk as here for importing.. you need a license, and the proper paperwork done by the exporter(me) Costs for documents run $85-$100 depending on your exporter. Shipping is pretty expensive... probably over $100

I put this in response, not only to you, but to others who want fish exported to them, it's an expensive business which is why there aren't that many people who do it.

Hope this answers your questions.!!

btw.. for your rules in the UK I found this link to be helpful
http://www.defra.gov.uk/fish/fishfarm/gifapp2.pdf

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 08 Feb 2004, 18:02

HEY Barbie!
Congratulation on spawning these guys...
I knew you would succeed!!
Greta pictures.
From what I have observed the male will not let the other female in unless the youn are about to leave the caves or have just left the caves... very strange as it seems like they are behaving very differently from other species...
Cheers
Yann

Fish Soup · Post by **Fish Soup** » 11 Feb 2004, 02:42

How are the kids doing? Feeding yet?

Post by **Barbie** » 11 Feb 2004, 03:23

The kids are doing great. One of the two in the box is developing much slower than the other, still.

But he does seem to be developing. In looking in the cave, I would say the ones in there are about as developed as the larger of these two. I figure by friday they'll be hunting for food. I'm looking forward to seeing what they will eat!

Yann my ancistrus won't allow anyone else in his cave once he's spawned with one to spawn again. I think it might just vary from fish to fish. Some are just more monogamous maybe ;)

Barbie